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Thread: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Okay, I'm a bit confused. Your beef with Obama is that he's too pro-business? He's the anti-socialist?
    the left-right paradigm has you snow-balled. virtually all politicians today are corporate shills, and this certainly includes Obama.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You'll lose because you won't get a liberal agenda.
    Bottom line. The best the RW can do? Palin? Bachmann?

    At least SNL will rock again.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Is it your argument that a company can exist without profits? If no one purchases from them it is irrelevant? Only the consumer benefits from any sold product?
    What? No... Not sure what you're saying here. What I am saying is that, for example, if I live next door to a factory that makes say some part for a jet engine, and that factor is dumping waste in the water table I use, I have no recourse without government involvement because I'm not their customer.

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    You are right about our gov breaking up monopolies. But, they also allow for huge silly regulations that benefit one party over another - which should not be the role of government.
    Lets work off of an example. Come up with a federal regulation of a corporation that doesn't serve any legitimate national interest, it just causes one private party to benefit over another.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What? No... Not sure what you're saying here. What I am saying is that, for example, if I live next door to a factory that makes say some part for a jet engine, and that factor is dumping waste in the water table I use, I have no recourse without government involvement because I'm not their customer.
    you have no recourse without government involvement because the primary function of government is to setup the court system that allows you to sue for damages.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post


    The notion that government overall favors corporations is ridiculous. Government is the only meaningful check the people have on corporations. 99.9% of corporations have never gotten a bailout or whatever. Regulation is the main interaction between government and corporations and corporations most definitely don't like being regulated.
    The Obama Administration bailed out GM, Chrysler, Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, and banks that were also corporations. Wall Street contributed a great deal to the Obama campaign. How can you not know or ignore all of this?

    The Left is clearly telling the people one thing and yet still looking after corporations because then it is about "jobs" or 'the working man' i.e. Unions. And of course Unions are one of the biggest businesses, and rackets, in the United States and funnel their money directly to the Democratic Party.

    It's a shell game going on right in front of you and you seem oblivious to it.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    you have no recourse without government involvement because the primary function of government is to setup the court system that allows you to sue for damages.
    Yeah, thats one way that government can give me recourse against a factory next door to me that is polluting- by creating a private right of action for me. But that's only a small part of the ways that government protects me against the factory. If the factory's pollution is not obvious to the untrained eye, I need government taking water samples and checking what is coming out of their smoke stack and whatnot. In order for that to be effective, I need government doing all kinds of tests of various types of chemicals. If it is a situation where the damage done doesn't kick in until 20 years later when I get cancer and it would be too late to prove that the factory did it, then I need government banning that type of behavior, not just giving me access to the courts. If it is the kind of thing where 100,000 people would be effected, but the harm to each one is relatively minor, then the odds are not very many people would sue, so we're better off with a regulatory solution than a court based one. Etc.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah, thats one way that government can give me recourse against a factory next door to me that is polluting- by creating a private right of action for me. But that's only a small part of the ways that government protects me against the factory. If the factory's pollution is not obvious to the untrained eye, I need government taking water samples and checking what is coming out of their smoke stack and whatnot. In order for that to be effective, I need government doing all kinds of tests of various types of chemicals. If it is a situation where the damage done doesn't kick in until 20 years later when I get cancer and it would be too late to prove that the factory did it, then I need government banning that type of behavior, not just giving me access to the courts. If it is the kind of thing where 100,000 people would be effected, but the harm to each one is relatively minor, then the odds are not very many people would sue, so we're better off with a regulatory solution than a court based one. Etc.
    Why do you need government to do all those things? Private industry can do it just as well and then you take them to court.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Obama Administration bailed out GM, Chrysler, Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, and banks that were also corporations. Wall Street contributed a great deal to the Obama campaign. How can you not know or ignore all of this?

    The Left is clearly telling the people one thing and yet still looking after corporations because then it is about "jobs" or 'the working man' i.e. Unions. And of course Unions are one of the biggest businesses, and rackets, in the United States and funnel their money directly to the Democratic Party.

    It's a shell game going on right in front of you and you seem oblivious to it.
    Your thinking on all this is very muddled. For example, you claim that the Democrats are both pro-corporation and pro-union, but most corporations that have unions, their number one wish in the world is to be rid of the union. That's like saying that Obama is too pro-Isreal one minute then that he is too pro-Palestine the next. Secondly, those bailouts were mostly loans that have already been paid back. Third, Congress passed those bailouts, not Obama. Fourth, corporations hate regulations and obviously the Democrats are more pro-regulation and the Republicans more anti-regulation. Fifth, the bailouts of the banks happened under Bush, not Obama. Sixth, unions aren't businesses. They're non-profit.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why do you need government to do all those things? Private industry can do it just as well and then you take them to court.
    Again, taking them to court means turning the issue over to the government to resolve... Court isn't an alternative to government, it IS government.

    But, how could private industry do those things? Private industry can't require other corporations to comply with anything or let them test anything or force them to release any information or whatever....

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah, thats one way that government can give me recourse against a factory next door to me that is polluting- by creating a private right of action for me. But that's only a small part of the ways that government protects me against the factory. If the factory's pollution is not obvious to the untrained eye, I need government taking water samples and checking what is coming out of their smoke stack and whatnot. In order for that to be effective, I need government doing all kinds of tests of various types of chemicals. If it is a situation where the damage done doesn't kick in until 20 years later when I get cancer and it would be too late to prove that the factory did it, then I need government banning that type of behavior, not just giving me access to the courts. If it is the kind of thing where 100,000 people would be effected, but the harm to each one is relatively minor, then the odds are not very many people would sue, so we're better off with a regulatory solution than a court based one. Etc.

    regardless of the entity you entrust to protect you – it still boils down to if that entity has your interests in heart

    You will always be at the mercy of other individuals hoping that they do what is right, not what is profitable. Whether those individuals work for the government, or work outside of the government, they are just as susceptible to greed and corruption.

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