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Thread: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

  1. #221
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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Would you buy heroin because it was cool? Does your belief system say that no-matter-what you will stay with the bank you have regardless if they screw you over? Hopefully the answer is no, but in your world you do not get to make those decisions. Your government does.
    Huh? What does that have to do with, for example, a corporation that is polluting? Government is the mechanism through which I can make a decision about that. Without government I can't make a decision about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Gov is there to protect you, not make your *decisions* for you.
    What decisions are you talking about? I'm saying that government should constrain corporations to prevent them from doing things to harm the people. Nothing about making people's decisions for them. The people vote for the government... Maybe you can clarify your argument?

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Corporations are not bad, they are just overly protected and that needs to end.
    The notion that government overall favors corporations is ridiculous. Government is the only meaningful check the people have on corporations. 99.9% of corporations have never gotten a bailout or whatever. Regulation is the main interaction between government and corporations and corporations most definitely don't like being regulated.

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Having limits and rules and regulations are very good things when they make sense. Many libertarians are not advocating zero regulations/laws. Creating regulations and laws because they profit others is a very bad thing. For instance, private buying of raw milk is a federal law because it forces the population to purchase from an industry - that is just plain wrong in my book. I should be able to buy raw milk *and* from whomever I damn well chose.
    What are you talking about? Private buying of raw milk? Did you mean to say that the government requires that you buy homogenized milk or something? If so, yeah, the government maintains health standards... Why would that bother you?

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Some? You betcha
    A majority? Maybe

    Like it or not, the traditional conservative view on women is barefoot and pregnant...
    And you have some support for these ridiculous assertions?

    Considering you and your cohorts label anything that you disagree with as "left wing", then your words don't mean much.
    My cohorts? And who might they be? Do you believe that a left wing exists?

    And yes, Conservative women often do get a hard time by the opposition.. but it is not because they are women, but because there are so few of them, that they do stick out like a sore thumb and when they come with idiotic comments on a regular basis, then well..
    Apparently you have never seen a gathering of the Republican party and the number of women there.

    It is the same with Herman Cain.. he is black, and a front line conservative... a quite rare thing... but are people racists for being critical of him? of course not, not when he comes stupid comments and has bonehead policy ideas. And yes the same goes for Obama.
    Ah yes. Cain is stupid and boneheaded as well. Thats the typical LWftist critique of their poltical opponents. The real issues are never discussed.

    Palin brought her family into her political campaigning and then like it or not they are fair game. She is the one that paraded her whole family on a very constant pace at all rallies she was at.
    All political candidates in the US show their families and to you and other Leftists this makes them "far game"". We can therefore attack Barrack Obama's children but we don't. And do you know why? Because there is a sense of decency among non Leftists, and if his children were attacked it would be declared offensive by everyone immediately. It is only the children of Conservatives who are attacked in this fashion, just as are Conservative Blacks and Conservative women.

    She is the one having one of her kids hold the baby.. she is the one who pushed Bristol with her big belly into the media spotlight and she is the one that got tax payers to pay for her whole family as they always traveled with her (instead of being in school....?) when she was governor of Alaska.
    You feel it is wrong for one of her children to hold their bay? "Bristol with her big belly"??? She was pregnant! What do you expect? And families often travel together. Don't you know that? Have they no more family units in Europe?

    As for Bachmann.. her family is in no way being scrutinised as Palin's was/is. Her children are pretty non existent in the reports I have seen, which frankly is good. Sure her husband is in the spotlight, but that is a self inflicted wound.
    Oh they have tried to scrutinize Bachmann on non-political issues, even on these boards, and she is also being called "stupid" as you also describe a candidate. How is the presence of her husband a "self inflicted wound"?

  3. #223
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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Huh? What does that have to do with, for example, a corporation that is polluting? Government is the mechanism through which I can make a decision about that. Without government I can't make a decision about it.
    Say you know a corporation that is polluting. As a good democrat/human you should vow to not purchase their goods - right? That is the most reasonable and responsible thing to do. In our current world, we are unable to not purchase their goods because the companies are protected by laws from us suing them or they are protected by being a racket that there are no other choices and it is illegal to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What decisions are you talking about? I'm saying that government should constrain corporations to prevent them from doing things to harm the people.
    I wholeheartedly agree. What are your thoughts on the government constraining for the sole purpose of profit? Personally, extreme health reasons I can see, and adhere to if they make sense. For instance, putting asbestos (a known carcinogen) into baby food should be a federal crime because that is stupidity. If a company were to do that, they should get sued from every American and shut down - not some $25,000 "oops" fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The notion that government overall favors corporations is ridiculous. Government is the only meaningful check the people have on corporations.
    Unfortunately, I believe that you believe this. But, it is not true nor will it ever be true. Absolute power currupts absolutely. Government has that absolute power, we need to trim that a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    99.9% of corporations have never gotten a bailout or whatever. Regulation is the main interaction between government and corporations and corporations most definitely don't like being regulated.
    On the big stuff, that 1% of companies actually do 99% of the work and get 99% of the profit. Thus simple math is that even that .1% you claim is very significant. Many "regulations" are for profit instead of for the "common good". I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What are you talking about? Private buying of raw milk? Did you mean to say that the government requires that you buy homogenized milk or something? If so, yeah, the government maintains health standards... Why would that bother you?
    Raw milk regulations have zero to do with health standards. Look it up.
    If you analyse it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. -Ronald Reagan

    I am also known as "vauge".

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Say you know a corporation that is polluting. As a good democrat/human you should vow to not purchase their goods - right? That is the most reasonable and responsible thing to do. In our current world, we are unable to not purchase their goods because the companies are protected by laws from us suing them or they are protected by being a racket that there are no other choices and it is illegal to do so.
    A number of problems with your thinking... First off, that strategy of not buying stuff would only protect the consumers and only to the extent that they have a choice of products and only to the extent that they are aware of the issue. It does nothing to protect employees, people that live nearby, people who share the environment with the corporation, people who depend on natural resources the corporation exploits, etc. And even for consumers, without government they are highly unlikely to have any way to be aware of who is polluting or mistreating their workers or whatever, since nobody could compel corporations to release any information.

    As for suing... You realize suing somebody in a court of law is a service provided by government... That is how individuals can enforce regulations. Government gives them that ability... Without government there would be no law to sue over, no court to determine if the law had been violated and no way to enforce the decision of the court...

    Or the argument you make about monopoly is also backwards. Governments break up monopolies. That is one of the key areas of regulation- antitrust regulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree. What are your thoughts on the government constraining for the sole purpose of profit?
    Not sure what you mean. Government doesn't profit. It doesn't have shareholders or anything like that... Not sure what you mean.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So no limits on what corporations can do to people at all. Just let them run roughshod over whoever they want. If they want to screw up the air you breath, let them. If they want to refuse to hire black people, no problem. If they want to sell baby blankets made out of asbestos, hey, that's their choice... No thanks. I do not welcome our new corporate overlords.
    You may not welcome your corporate overlords, but the policies you support are quite amicable to these corporations, which is why they support politicians like Obama so readily, and fight hard to keep a politician like Ron Paul from gaining ground

    Ron Paul's free, green market - Global warming - Salon.com

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    You may not welcome your corporate overlords, but the policies you support are quite amicable to these corporations, which is why they support politicians like Obama so readily, and fight hard to keep a politician like Ron Paul from gaining ground

    Ron Paul's free, green market - Global warming - Salon.com
    Corporations require a functioning society with consumers who are able to purchase their goods. That's why they support Obama and not a crazy like Ron Paul.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    It is about what the media tells you. The reason you think Paul is a "fringe element lunatic" is because the entire dynamic has been presented to you by the media in such a way that you are intended to conclude as such. Both the "mainstream" liberals and "mainstream" conservatives have strong elements of authoritarianism in their philosophy and so naturally when someone presents a philosophy that is far removed from the authoritarianism of both sides you are supposed to view him as a "fringe element lunatic" because otherwise your continued submission to authority would be impossible.

    You are victim to one of the classic methods the State uses to stifle resistance, labeling all dissent as madness.
    So now the state owns the media. Interesting. How do you form your enlightened opinions?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    You may not welcome your corporate overlords, but the policies you support are quite amicable to these corporations, which is why they support politicians like Obama so readily, and fight hard to keep a politician like Ron Paul from gaining ground

    Ron Paul's free, green market - Global warming - Salon.com
    Yeah... Ron Paul's solution to the environment- the same as his solution to everything else: remove government, sprinkle magical fairy dust, wait for problem to solve self... In my view his whole platform boils down to "lets just give up on the country and hope for the best"...

    As for corporate donations, a few things. First off, corporations more often donate to the candidate that they think will win rather than the candidate they want to win. They are trying to buy influence, not only trying to influence elections. But secondly, the stats you hear about "BP donated more to Obama" or whatever are always a bit of a scam. If you actually read the articles they actually say "BP and all of its employees donated more to Obama than McCain"... So like all the people working in their gas stations, manual laborers, etc, combined. That isn't remotely the same thing as saying BP donated more money to Obama.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Corporations require a functioning society with consumers who are able to purchase their goods. That's why they support Obama and not a crazy like Ron Paul.
    delusional.....

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    As for corporate donations, a few things. First off, corporations more often donate to the candidate that they think will win rather than the candidate they want to win.
    Ron Paul does win elections, he has been winning elections to national office for over a decade. you have nothing but bull**** to offer.

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