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Thread: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The DOJ has a responsibility to defend the laws of the country as far as they can
    not like that

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    not like that
    What do you mean? They had to either argue that DOMA advanced a government interest or concede that it was unconstitutional. Normally the DOJ always has to argue that any law is constitutional. They did so in this case for a couple years until Obama took the unusual step of ordering them to stop. That prompted many on the right to freak out and claim that he was abandoning his constitutional duty to defend the laws of the country and whatnot, but they just very plainly said that they just couldn't in good conscience make arguments they knew were ridiculous in court.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    In order to get to a point in one's head where they actually buy the notion that the government needs to play a role protecting people from homosexuality you need to believe that everybody has a desire to have sex with members of their own sex, but that those desires are kept in check by laws and moral judgment. You know who has a desire to have sex with members of their own sex? Gay people. Straight people know that they're not straight because of a law or something a preacher told them. So obviously it makes sense that such a huge percentage of the zealous anti-gay folks turn out to be gay.
    Exactly. I think a significant percentage of anti-gay crusaders are in fact gay, but they've had to suppress those feelings due to their moralistic upbringing. Same reason there are so many gay men in the Catholic clergy: they think it will allow them to avoid those feelings.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Redress, I'd like you to review the two sets of answers you have given, one for opposing and one for not opposing SSM, and then read my explanation for why the opposition to SSM is rooted in homophobia and hatred



    Please note that the lack of opposition is based on your conclusion that SSM will not have any bad consequences for you. People do not object to changes that will not affect them (or will have a beneficial effect on them). People only object to change when they believe the change will have a negative effect on them (or their family, or society at large, etc)



    Now note that the reasons you give for opposing SSM are based on change. Your arguments here are based on not wanting to change. But as I noted above, people do not object to change that has either a good effect or no effect on them. Obviously, the objection to this change (ie allowing SSM) is a perception that allowing SSM will have a deleterious effect on the people who object to SSM. Now here's the kicker

    People do not love change that is bad for them. People do not even like change that is bad for them. People are not even merely nuetral about change that is bad for them. People don't like (ie hate) change that is bad for them. Bad consequences are something that is to be feared and fear leads to hate. This doesn't mean that the idea of SSM causes the homophobes to curl up into a ball, quivering with fear and anger, but since SSM is seen (by the homophobes) as something that will lead to bad consequences for them, SS is seen as a threat. Threats are things which are feared (this is just human (and animal) nature), and fear leads to hate (again, this is just human nature).

    And because this perception of bad consequences, threats and fears are based on strong opinions of what SSM will lead to, I beleive that any and all opposition to SSM is rooted in bigoted hate and homophobia. So if you can, tell me where I'm wrong
    My post 3 was not in answer to your post 66(hint: I am not psychic, I don't know what stupid question you will ask until you ask it). In fact, if you look at my comments in context with where they are posted, people will see that you have tried to dishonestly create a false impression about what I said. I understand you have a failed argument, but when you have to stoop to lying to try and cover, it just shows every one how poorly your argument is fairing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    My post 3 was not in answer to your post 66(hint: I am not psychic, I don't know what stupid question you will ask until you ask it). In fact, if you look at my comments in context with where they are posted, people will see that you have tried to dishonestly create a false impression about what I said. I understand you have a failed argument, but when you have to stoop to lying to try and cover, it just shows every one how poorly your argument is fairing.
    Regardless of who you are responding to, it is what you said. And I asked the question earlier. You have had time to respond to it.

    I understand why you don't want to answer my question. Too bad if you can't explain how opposition to SSM can be rooted in anything other than homophobia and hate because hate and homophobia are the only reasons to oppose SSM
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Regardless of who you are responding to, it is what you said. And I asked the question earlier. You have had time to respond to it.

    I understand why you don't want to answer my question. Too bad if you can't explain how opposition to SSM can be rooted in anything other than homophobia and hate because hate and homophobia are the only reasons to oppose SSM
    You tried to suggest that what I said about the topic(a guy seeing a gay escort) and claimed it was about SSM. You also claimed that the third post in the thread was in response to the 66th post in the thread. You are not even bothering to make the slightest attempt to debate honestly. I have answered your questions, I have shown very clearly how you are wrong, and I have been 100 % consistent on topics like that, which is I do not care about the sex lives out politician, republican or democrat.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are getting nowhere because the only defense you have is to repeat your unsupported and unsupportable claims about a lack of hate and homophobia.

    Your personal attack has been noted and understood as demonctrating a lack of evidence for your claims
    What claims have you made that you've actually supported with anything more than your opinion?

    I know, I know, this is just a personal attack right?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You tried to suggest that what I said about the topic(a guy seeing a gay escort) and claimed it was about SSM. You also claimed that the third post in the thread was in response to the 66th post in the thread. You are not even bothering to make the slightest attempt to debate honestly. I have answered your questions, I have shown very clearly how you are wrong, and I have been 100 % consistent on topics like that, which is I do not care about the sex lives out politician, republican or democrat.
    You still haven't explained how opposition to SSM can be explained by anything other than hate and homophobia.

    And your claims about I said are nothing but lies. Those lies won't hide the fact that you can't explain opposition to SSM without hate and homophobia.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    What claims have you made that you've actually supported with anything more than your opinion?

    I know, I know, this is just a personal attack right?
    The claim that opposition to SSM requires hate and homophobia which I have supported using logic and reason and posts from Redress. You, on the other hand, have posted nothing worthwhile
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The claim that opposition to SSM requires hate and homophobia which I have supported using logic and reason and posts from Redress. You, on the other hand, have posted nothing worthwhile
    You're pro-choice right? Clearly you hate babies as there are no other logical reasons to support abortion rights.

    I did ask you to substantiate your opinion with something other than your opinion so, yeah, in that you'll never do it, I can see why you'd think it was worthless.
    Last edited by X Factor; 08-14-11 at 02:01 PM.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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