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Thread: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    1) Common law grounds.

    2) States rights

    3) unnecessary change

    that is off the top of my head. None of those are bigoted or hateful. When your whole argument is that those you disagree with are bad, you automatically fail.
    The new prophets and apostles believe Christians--certain Christians--are destined to not just take "dominion" over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the "Seven Mountains" of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world. They believe they're intended to lord over it all. As a first step, they're leading an "army of God" to commandeer civilian government.
    Rachel Maddow: Rick Perry May Be The Face Of A Christian Movement Seeking Political Domination (VIDEO)

    CHRISTIAN RECONSTRUCTIONISM, DOMINION THEOLOGY AND THEONOMY
    "These belief systems find a voice in Christian Reconstructionism -- a political movement to convert the United States -- and eventually the entire earth -- into a theocracy in which dissenters, adulterers, sexually active homosexuals, some sexually active bisexuals, witches, sorcerers, etc. would be exterminated."

    Perry, she said, had just held a prayer event with "a specific Christian political movement...that seems to want a Rick Perry candidacy to be their political vehicle."

    I fear for this country.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    The new prophets and apostles believe Christians--certain Christians--are destined to not just take "dominion" over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the "Seven Mountains" of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world. They believe they're intended to lord over it all. As a first step, they're leading an "army of God" to commandeer civilian government.
    Rachel Maddow: Rick Perry May Be The Face Of A Christian Movement Seeking Political Domination (VIDEO)

    CHRISTIAN RECONSTRUCTIONISM, DOMINION THEOLOGY AND THEONOMY
    "These belief systems find a voice in Christian Reconstructionism -- a political movement to convert the United States -- and eventually the entire earth -- into a theocracy in which dissenters, adulterers, sexually active homosexuals, some sexually active bisexuals, witches, sorcerers, etc. would be exterminated."

    Perry, she said, had just held a prayer event with "a specific Christian political movement...that seems to want a Rick Perry candidacy to be their political vehicle."

    I fear for this country.
    None of this really has anything to do with what I said. I never claimed that there are not people who dislike gays and oppose gays using religious excuses. What I said is that there are other reasons to oppose SSM for some, and assuming is bad.

    I support SSM. I am in fact one of the strongest advocates of SSM on this board. I learned early on that arguments such as Sangha is using are weak and ineffective, and often just inaccurate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    "These belief systems find a voice in Christian Reconstructionism -- a political movement to convert the United States -- and eventually the entire earth -- into a theocracy in which dissenters, adulterers, sexually active homosexuals, some sexually active bisexuals, witches, sorcerers, etc. would be exterminated."
    If any Christian group wants to exterminate me, then I am going to take a **** ton of them with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of this really has anything to do with what I said. I never claimed that there are not people who dislike gays and oppose gays using religious excuses. What I said is that there are other reasons to oppose SSM for some, and assuming is bad.

    I support SSM. I am in fact one of the strongest advocates of SSM on this board. I learned early on that arguments such as Sangha is using are weak and ineffective, and often just inaccurate.
    Okay, here's the thing. The government has no business in the business of marriage, or morals. Morals and ethics are personal and with the normal exceptions like killing, should have no place in the political process. Doing so comes far too close for many of us to establishing a state "religion", by imposing religious morals and ethics to the law.

    I personally do not care who this guy has sex with, because it's none of my business. Or anyone elses outside of his family. I think what the others here are saying is this reeks of hypocritical political pandering. How dare he in the first place pretend to have such ethics and morals that he says out loud should be imposed on some, while in reality, well, he is leading quite a different lifestyle.

    How many times must a pathetic scenario like this be presented before Americans simply don't care who does what with whom? You know as well as anyone that it is indeed the religious right who fights basic civil rights for those who are different from them. In a free society this can not bode well for the populace.

    First homosexuals. Then Pagans. Then Muslims. Then, well, you get the idea.

    I will say it once more, personal religious morals and ethics have no place in my government.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    1) Common law grounds.

    2) States rights

    3) unnecessary change

    that is off the top of my head. None of those are bigoted or hateful. When your whole argument is that those you disagree with are bad, you automatically fail.
    #1 is nonsense which you can't explain and the other two are just other words for the homophobes intolerance and hate.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of this really has anything to do with what I said. I never claimed that there are not people who dislike gays and oppose gays using religious excuses. What I said is that there are other reasons to oppose SSM for some, and assuming is bad.

    I support SSM. I am in fact one of the strongest advocates of SSM on this board. I learned early on that arguments such as Sangha is using are weak and ineffective, and often just inaccurate.
    And I have yet to hear you give a reason for opposing SSM that is not rooted in hate and homophobia.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Rick Santorum's Greatest hits.
    careful, obama's doj has said far crueler things about gay marriage than mr santorum

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-h..._b_215718.html

    and, unlike the defeated senator from pa, the administration made its statements IN COURT
    Last edited by The Prof; 08-14-11 at 09:25 AM.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    In order to get to a point in one's head where they actually buy the notion that the government needs to play a role protecting people from homosexuality you need to believe that everybody has a desire to have sex with members of their own sex, but that those desires are kept in check by laws and moral judgment. You know who has a desire to have sex with members of their own sex? Gay people. Straight people know that they're not straight because of a law or something a preacher told them. So obviously it makes sense that such a huge percentage of the zealous anti-gay folks turn out to be gay.

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    careful, obama's doj has said far crueler things about gay marriage than mr santorum

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-h..._b_215718.html

    and, unlike the defeated senator from pa, the administration made its statements IN COURT
    The DOJ has a responsibility to defend the laws of the country as far as they can. They defended DOMA up until about 9 months ago then they concluded that they just couldn't make a morally sound or logical argument in favor of it, so they stopped defending it. It is literally only one of a handful of times in US history that the DOJ has refused to defend a law. But you're mad that they even tried to defend it?

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    Re: Anti-gay lawmaker caught in Craigslist scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And I have yet to hear you give a reason for opposing SSM that is not rooted in hate and homophobia.
    Redress, I'd like you to review the two sets of answers you have given, one for opposing and one for not opposing SSM, and then read my explanation for why the opposition to SSM is rooted in homophobia and hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Do you know what his actual family values are? If not, it makes it impossible for you to judge.

    My response to this: I do not care. If he wants to see a gay escort, it's his and his families business, not mine. It does not effect me in any way.
    Please note that the lack of opposition is based on your conclusion that SSM will not have any bad consequences for you. People do not object to changes that will not affect them (or will have a beneficial effect on them). People only object to change when they believe the change will have a negative effect on them (or their family, or society at large, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    1) Common law grounds.

    2) States rights

    3) unnecessary change

    that is off the top of my head. None of those are bigoted or hateful.
    Now note that the reasons you give for opposing SSM are based on change. Your arguments here are based on not wanting to change. But as I noted above, people do not object to change that has either a good effect or no effect on them. Obviously, the objection to this change (ie allowing SSM) is a perception that allowing SSM will have a deleterious effect on the people who object to SSM. Now here's the kicker

    People do not love change that is bad for them. People do not even like change that is bad for them. People are not even merely nuetral about change that is bad for them. People don't like (ie hate) change that is bad for them. Bad consequences are something that is to be feared and fear leads to hate. This doesn't mean that the idea of SSM causes the homophobes to curl up into a ball, quivering with fear and anger, but since SSM is seen (by the homophobes) as something that will lead to bad consequences for them, SS is seen as a threat. Threats are things which are feared (this is just human (and animal) nature), and fear leads to hate (again, this is just human nature).

    And because this perception of bad consequences, threats and fears are based on strong opinions of what SSM will lead to, I beleive that any and all opposition to SSM is rooted in bigoted hate and homophobia. So if you can, tell me where I'm wrong
    Last edited by sangha; 08-14-11 at 10:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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