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United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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pbrauer said:
Baloney, today Medicare is a single payer system in which the government pays only when a senior uses it. Under Ryan's plan every senior would get a voucher whether they need it or not. They would be required to buy health insurance whether they want it or not if they expect to get any healthcare in the future. The cost's would rise astronomically for seniors. Bad plan all around.
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Gee, imagine that a consumer deciding where to spend his money vs being forced by the govt. Think that maybe the consumer would spend the money smarter than a bureaucrat in D.C. Aw, so much faith in bureacrats that created the 14.5 trillion dollar debt.
 
Conservative said:
The Constitution gives the Congress control of the Purse strings not the President
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True, but there is NO statuary limitation as the debt ceiling is. The debt ceiling is really stupid when you think about it. Congress, The President come up with a budget plan and the debt ceiling says you can execute your plans. Pretty stupid in my eyes.
 
Conservative said:
The Constitution gives the Congress control of the Purse strings not the President
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Chart of the Day: Republican vs. Democratic Spending

Chart of the Day: Republican vs. Democratic Spending | Mother Jones

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

Ironically, up until President Obama’s administration, all increases in the national debt as a percentage of GDP since WWII came under Republican administrations:

national debt under republicans

Spending escalates under GOP watch

Spending escalates under GOP watch - Washington Times
 
Conservative said:
Since Budgets are yearly they care included in the defense budgets. Iraq is winding down but Obama ramped up Afghanistan. Seems that many liberals don't seem to understand budgets and deficits vs debt
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You might want to investigate how funding the Iraq war was handled. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
You might want to investigate how funding the Iraq war was handled. :coffeepap
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Iraq Supplementals are included in the debt just like the Afghanistan supplemental requested by Obama was included in the 2009 deficit so what is your point
 
Conservative said:
Gee, imagine that a consumer deciding where to spend his money vs being forced by the govt. Think that maybe the consumer would spend the money smarter than a bureaucrat in D.C. Aw, so much faith in bureacrats that created the 14.5 trillion dollar debt.
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It's Ryan who wants seniors to buy health insurance, today if a senior can get by with just Medicare they don't need to buy insurance. Got it, Con?
 
upsideguy said:
As an accountant (at least by training), I must agree that revenue reductions are not an expense. They do, however, have the exact same result on the bottom line. Hence, the primary point is valid and discussion is about form rather than substance (wasting time in the academics and not facing the issue).
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This breaks it down pretty easily. It makes no difference how you add it up or subtract it. We can't afford it. (in money and lives)
 
Conservative said:
Since Budgets are yearly they care included in the defense budgets. Iraq is winding down but Obama ramped up Afghanistan. Seems that many liberals don't seem to understand budgets and deficits vs debt
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Uh, bullsh*t. Bush never included the wars in his budgets, nor did he include the $800 billion TARP bailout in his budget. The president can propose a $1 budget but it doesn't mean a thing if he ends up pushing policies that result in a trillion+ dollar deficit.
 
pbrauer said:
It's Ryan who wants seniors to buy health insurance, today if a senior can get by with just Medicare they don't need to buy insurance. Got it, Con?
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Got it Pb, the govt knows best in your world and you have no problem with the 14.5 trillion dollar debt. Seniors are too stupid in the liberal world to get their own healthcare, I know that I am. So thanks for your concern.
 
Conservative said:
Iraq Supplementals are included in the debt just like the Afghanistan supplemental requested by Obama was included in the 2009 deficit so what is your point
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They are part of the debt, but not reflected in the deficit, that's one reason a balanced budget amendment is stupid.
 
Conservative said:
Got it Pb, the govt knows best in your world and you have no problem with the 14.5 trillion dollar debt. Seniors are too stupid in the liberal world to get their own healthcare, I know that I am. So thanks for your concern.
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Got it private insurance is better in your world even though it takes money out of the pocket of seniors.:peace
 
AdamT said:
Uh, bullsh*t. Bush never included the wars in his budgets, nor did he include the $800 billion TARP bailout in his budget. The president can propose a $1 budget but it doesn't mean a thing if he ends up pushing policies that result in a trillion+ dollar deficit.
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The 700 billion dollar TARP program was passed in October 2008 long after the 2009 budget was prepared. it was a supplemental and TARP was added to the debt just like the Iraq Supplementals were added to the debt. You really lack basic understanding and still cannot understand that the budgets for the U.S. run from October to September. October 2008 was in fiscal year 2009. Get it yet?
 
winston53660 said:
Got it private insurance is better in your world even though it takes money out of the pocket of seniors.:peace
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Exactly, private insurance is taking money out of my pocket each month and I have a choice where to spend my insurance dollars
 
pbrauer said:
They are part of the debt, but not reflected in the deficit, that's one reason a balanced budget amendment is stupid.
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The results of a balanced budget amendment - is that also stupid?
 
Conservative said:
The 700 billion dollar TARP program was passed in October 2008 long after the 2009 budget was prepared. it was a supplemental and TARP was added to the debt just like the Iraq Supplementals were added to the debt. You really lack basic understanding and still cannot understand that the budgets for the U.S. run from October to September. October 2008 was in fiscal year 2009. Get it yet?
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You are hopelessly confused. Supplementals are added to the debt -- yes. But supplementals are not in the budget, and therefore they are not reflected in BUDGET deficits. Get the picture? That's how Bush played his shell game.
 
Conservative said:
Got it Pb, the govt knows best in your world and you have no problem with the 14.5 trillion dollar debt. Seniors are too stupid in the liberal world to get their own healthcare, I know that I am. So thanks for your concern.
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In many cases insurance companies would not insure a senior because maybe they have cancer, diabetes, emphysema, etc. ...
 
Conservative said:
Exactly, private insurance is taking money out of my pocket each month and I have a choice where to spend my insurance dollars
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Fine waste your money on a more expensive system. Just don't expect everyone else to play along.
 
Conservative said:
Exactly, private insurance is taking money out of my pocket each month and I have a choice where to spend my insurance dollars
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Most Americans don't have that choice. If they're lucky they get what their employer provides or they get nothing. Under health care reform they will have a choice among multiple plans.
 
AdamT said:
You are hopelessly confused. Supplementals are added to the debt -- yes. But supplementals are not in the budget, and therefore they are not reflected in BUDGET deficits. Get the picture? That's how Bush played his shell game.
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No, supplementals are never part of the budget because a supplemental is for an unforseen event. Guess you really need a basics civics and economic class. They are indeed part of the debt and it is the debt that matters, and what we pay debt service on.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!
 
AdamT said:
Most Americans don't have that choice. If they're lucky they get what their employer provides or they get nothing. Under health care reform they will have a choice among multiple plans.
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You are right, I remember well when I got my job that I had a gun held to my head forcing me to take that job. We need the nanny state more now than ever before.
 
Conservative said:
Iraq Supplementals are included in the debt just like the Afghanistan supplemental requested by Obama was included in the 2009 deficit so what is your point
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The CSBA agreed and blamed the ballooning budgets on the Bush administration's unprecedented decision to fund the wars through giant emergency spending measures rather than through appropriations requests.

"The process has reduced the ability of Congress to exercise effective oversight. It has also tended to obscure the long-term costs and budgetary consequences of ongoing military operations," the report says. It also warns that such emergency bills have included "substantial amounts of funding for programs unrelated to the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan."

(snip)

The report also rapped the Bush administration's paying for the wars through borrowing, rather than tax increases and spending cuts. That approach, it concluded, will lead to interest costs through 2018 that range from about $70 billion to as high as about $700 billion, depending on how much of the war funding came through bond sales.

Study Criticizes Bush Approach to War Funding, Calls for Changes


Stillcliaming the GOP doesn't spend?
 
AdamT said:
Most Americans don't have that choice. If they're lucky they get what their employer provides or they get nothing. Under health care reform they will have a choice among multiple plans.
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Is that the same HealthCare reform law that increases the costs of HealthCare? Also the same one that's identified the mandate as unconstitutional in the 11th circuit court of appeals?
 
Boo Radley said:
Chart of the Day: Republican vs. Democratic Spending

Chart of the Day: Republican vs. Democratic Spending | Mother Jones

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

Ironically, up until President Obama’s administration, all increases in the national debt as a percentage of GDP since WWII came under Republican administrations:

national debt under republicans

Spending escalates under GOP watch

Spending escalates under GOP watch - Washington Times
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Re-posted for conservative. :coffeepap
 
pbrauer said:
They are part of the debt, but not reflected in the deficit, that's one reason a balanced budget amendment is stupid.
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A balanced budget amendment would have exemptions that allowed us to go to war if necessary but besides that, are you argueing that it would have been bad if we had to come up with a plan to pay for going into Iraq before actually doing it?
 
Conservative said:
No, supplementals are never part of the budget because a supplemental is for an unforseen event. Guess you really need a basics civics and economic class. They are indeed part of the debt and it is the debt that matters, and what we pay debt service on.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!
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Wow, put down the Koolaid, kid. Do you HONESTLY believe that Bush did not foresee that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars needed to be funded every year? You are either extremely gullible or you have a serious integrity problem.
 
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