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United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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SypherAL said:
You cant convince these tea baggers of anything.
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And you can't point out facts that appologists will accept or even acknowledge.

SypherAL said:
Any facts you present to these people are downplayed with their excuses that we are just a bunch of fools, listening to that liberal media. Republicans think in a way of their way or the highway. The poor excuses of countless attempts at leadership only shows their true colors, unwilling to accept proven successful democratic administratons
As superior to their failed republican gop.
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I've provided you facts, reasoning. I see you accusing others of your own actions. While good policy for the Alinskyites, it doesn't hold water when light is shined on it.

SypherAL said:
These people tend to think with their wallet and bibles. Helping the poor and assisting the needy does not exist on a conservative agenda because their main goals are profit and corporate dominance in an economy that gives complete power of business over people while eliminating the middle class in the long run.
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Conservatives not only assist the needy, the do it on a larger scale than those of the Progressive liberal persuasion. More facts for you to ignore:

NY Times said:
Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.
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Op-Ed Columnist - Bleeding Heart Tightwads - NYTimes.com


SypherAL said:
They don't believe in clean energy, global warming, or enviromental protection.
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This is why your opinions and posts are not taken seriously. You generalize like a mouthfoamer without facts. THIS conservative does believe in clean energy, alternative energy, oil drilling, all of it. THIS conservative does believe the in global warming but does not believe it's "all man's fault". THIS conservative does believe in environmental protection and the responsibility of companies and corporations to be responsibile with earths environment.

SypherAL said:
Scientific data does not matter to them if it messes with corporation profits.
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You mean like GREEN corporate profits? :lamo

SypherAL said:
They would eat up the ozone and drink radioactive water if they could make an extra billion. If this is the america you desire, by all means go republican in 2012.
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Not only with i go Republican in 2012 I will try and convince as many people of the abject failure, broken promises, and rope a dope / snake oil salesman tactics of our current President. No amount of accusations or diversions to how evil and dispicable everyone BUT Obama, will change FACT. The facts you avoid, you side step, and you dismiss and do not acknowledge. Those who cannot take accountability / responsibility for actions or inactions have no credibility - and as I've shown BOTH political party's are at fault. You're opinion is, only the GOP and tea party are at fault. THAT is why you lack credibility.
 
pbrauer said:
Since when are U.S. securities called IOUs? Why do you buy that crap, con???
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The following are the line item expenses from the Budget of the United States. Explain to me why SS and Medicare are listed as line item expenses as well as revenue? Where is the lockbox?

Expenses

Defense
International Affairs
Gen. Science, Space
Energy
Natural resources/env
Agriculture
Commerce
Transportation
Community Dev
Education/Train/Social
Health
Medicare
Income Security
Social Security
Veterans Benefits
Justice
General Govt.
Net Interest
 
Ockham said:
Gee... you're minds made up. That certainly makes you open to convincing... :lamo
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Another in the long line of lib posers Al thinks that by choosing his lean as "independent" that it somehow shields his words as typed...Go down his post and every liberal talking point is listed with robotic like adherence to the overall liberal plan as laid out by Union, and Socialist heros like Allensky, Mao, Stalin, and Lennon. They are so exposed right now that it is ultimately laughable that they even try to promote the lie of their supposed Independent tag suggests.

And if you think about it, if they are going to be so dishonest as to try that crap then post a regurgitated spew of far leftist pablum then why even acknowledge them with intelligent conversation? They neither deserve it, nor warrant it.

I have no problem with liberals that are honestly going about their debate with principle, and genuine passion, but that is not what a rash of these mouthfoaming, quasi anti capitalists bring. They are rabid, and only look to name call, and troll to no end.

They are not worth our breath, time, or acknowledgement.

When one strives to look like a fool, let him.


j-mac
 
Its been...what...a few short weeks or so since congress 'saved' us with the debt ceiling extension. Since that time we have seen...what??? from...ANYONE...in congress or the white house. THAT is why the US was downgraded. Incompetent government. No leaders. Rhetoric. Nothing else. How can we be shocked when no one else wants to invest in the country?
 
VanceMack said:
Its been...what...a few short weeks or so since congress 'saved' us with the debt ceiling extension. Since that time we have seen...what??? from...ANYONE...in congress or the white house. THAT is why the US was downgraded. Incompetent government. No leaders. Rhetoric. Nothing else. How can we be shocked when no one else wants to invest in the country?
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Ok, what's your solution?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Ok, what's your solution?

j-mac
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Clear intent. Cutting spending across the board. Firm commitment to pay down the debt. Legislated mandates on spending cuts FOLLOWED (only followed...horse first, then cart) by sundowned tax increases. Summits with industry and labor to bring back industrial jobs. Action...not campaign rhetoric.
 
VanceMack said:
Clear intent. Cutting spending across the board. Firm commitment to pay down the debt. Legislated mandates on spending cuts FOLLOWED (only followed...horse first, then cart) by sundowned tax increases. Summits with industry and labor to bring back industrial jobs. Action...not campaign rhetoric.
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You make way to much common sense for these times sir.

j-mac
 
VanceMack said:
Clear intent. Cutting spending across the board. Firm commitment to pay down the debt. Legislated mandates on spending cuts FOLLOWED (only followed...horse first, then cart) by sundowned tax increases. Summits with industry and labor to bring back industrial jobs. Action...not campaign rhetoric.
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The debt ceiling deal established the so-called "super congress" which has been constituted to make additional cuts.
 
VanceMack said:
Clear intent. Cutting spending across the board. Firm commitment to pay down the debt. Legislated mandates on spending cuts FOLLOWED (only followed...horse first, then cart) by sundowned tax increases. Summits with industry and labor to bring back industrial jobs. Action...not campaign rhetoric.
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You raise a number of good points. The first is that spending cuts have to be real, not just promised for the future sometime and not sham cuts like Senator Reid unveiled a year ago. We've been fooled by those tactics before - the Congress of this year cannot pass a law which binds a Congress in future years to make cuts. For cuts to be real they have to occur in real-time.

Bringing back industrial jobs is not something that can be done by passing laws. If Congress passes a law repealing the law of gravity, gravity will ignore that law and continue to act on mass.

In order to bring back industrial jobs we need to lower the cost of overhead in the US. Every business person recognizes that a business with very high overhead has a much higher hurdle to jump in order to make it's first penny of profit than does a business with a very low overhead. This same principle applies to countries. The cost of living in the US is one of the highest in the world and a good part of the reason for this is all of the mandates, regulations and laws which add cost to the functions of everyday living. Very extensive, zoning laws, for instance, the ones that go beyond restricting factory placement in residential neighborhoods, increase the cost of housing by about 30% to 50%. This cost ripples out into society. Then there is Obama mandating that insurance companies MUST offer coverage for birth control pills. That's a cost that has to be covered. Now add 25,000 other examples of such government mandates and you see why the US is such an expensive place to live. All of these mandates may be popular with the people but they certainly do NOTHING to help the competitiveness of industrial operations and that's why our nation is deindustrializing.

If we want to reindustrialize then we have to change how we govern ourselves and kick the habit of using government to enforce mandates which increase costs on business.

We need to choose, we can't have both.
 
RiverDad said:
You raise a number of good points. The first is that spending cuts have to be real, not just promised for the future sometime and not sham cuts like Senator Reid unveiled a year ago. We've been fooled by those tactics before - the Congress of this year cannot pass a law which binds a Congress in future years to make cuts. For cuts to be real they have to occur in real-time.

Bringing back industrial jobs is not something that can be done by passing laws. If Congress passes a law repealing the law of gravity, gravity will ignore that law and continue to act on mass.

In order to bring back industrial jobs we need to lower the cost of overhead in the US. Every business person recognizes that a business with very high overhead has a much higher hurdle to jump in order to make it's first penny of profit than does a business with a very low overhead. This same principle applies to countries. The cost of living in the US is one of the highest in the world and a good part of the reason for this is all of the mandates, regulations and laws which add cost to the functions of everyday living. Very extensive, zoning laws, for instance, the ones that go beyond restricting factory placement in residential neighborhoods, increase the cost of housing by about 30% to 50%. This cost ripples out into society. Then there is Obama mandating that insurance companies MUST offer coverage for birth control pills. That's a cost that has to be covered. Now add 25,000 other examples of such government mandates and you see why the US is such an expensive place to live. All of these mandates may be popular with the people but they certainly do NOTHING to help the competitiveness of industrial operations and that's why our nation is deindustrializing.

If we want to reindustrialize then we have to change how we govern ourselves and kick the habit of using government to enforce mandates which increase costs on business.

We need to choose, we can't have both.
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In other words, if we make ourselves over into a third world country, we will be able to compete with third world countries for industrial jobs. No thanks.
 
It's not that difficult. Matter of fact it was one of Obama's campaign promises and one of the few things I agreed with him on. Unfortunately he has discarded the idea.

We simplify and use the tax code to encourage production here. Like in my past statements on the very same thing, I'm just making these numbers up.

Sell an item produced overseas and pay 35% tax. Sell an item produced in the U.S. and pay a 25% tax. It wouldn't take $2.00 an hour to help even things out. We may not be able to pay $25 an hour with full benefits but it would be better than unemployment.
 
AdamT said:
The debt ceiling deal established the so-called "super congress" which has been constituted to make additional cuts.
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Newt had it right as to what this so called 'super congress' will produce....




j-mac
 
Conservative said:
The following are the line item expenses from the Budget of the United States. Explain to me why SS and Medicare are listed as line item expenses as well as revenue? Where is the lockbox?

Expenses

Defense
International Affairs
Gen. Science, Space
Energy
Natural resources/env
Agriculture
Commerce
Transportation
Community Dev
Education/Train/Social
Health
Medicare
Income Security
Social Security
Veterans Benefits
Justice
General Govt.
Net Interest
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  • Al Gore never became President.
  • By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds. Trust Fund FAQs

:mrgreen:
 
pbrauer said:
  • Al Gore never became President.
  • By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds. Trust Fund FAQs

:mrgreen:
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Didn't answer the question, why is SS and Medicare ON BUDGET
 
Conservative said:
Didn't answer the question, why is SS and Medicare ON BUDGET
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I'm not playing twenty questions with you. Why does my knowing why they're in BUDGET matter? If I buy U.S. Treasury bonds all I wouldn't care if its in BUDGET, I would want be paid face value upon maternity - that's all that matters to me.
 
pbrauer said:
I'm not playing twenty questions with you. Why does my knowing why they're in BUDGET matter? If I buy U.S. Treasury bonds all I wouldn't care if its in BUDGET, I would want be paid face value upon maternity - that's all that matters to me.
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Because it just goes to show how naive you are in believing your SS funds are safe. In order to pay for those IOU's from the govt. using your contributions they are going to have to borrow the money. Those so called U.S. Treasury Bonds that you believe you have already have been spent. Isn't liberalism wonderful?
 
AdamT said:
The debt ceiling deal established the so-called "super congress" which has been constituted to make additional cuts.
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I know...so...yet ANOTHER commission on spending cuts. How many does that make...this year? And at the end of the day...their very clear mandate is...what...a few trillion dollars in cuts over how many years? Its not enough and the creditors of this nation (that sentence alone ought to make people puke) know it. But hey...quick show of hands who thinks this is going to be an effective exercise? Now how many think the two sides are going to sit back and protect their interests and voting base and point fingers at each other?
 
AdamT said:
In other words, if we make ourselves over into a third world country, we will be able to compete with third world countries for industrial jobs. No thanks.
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It doesnt have anything to do with making the country a 3rd world country. it has everything to do with labor and industry agreeing on intelligent labor structures, tax structures, profit margins, and government cooperation. Its not enough just to build cheap products ala a third world, you have to have first world 'consumers'. Industry is smart enough to know that. Create the right environment and they will have no choice but work together.
 
Conservative said:
Because it just goes to show how naive you are in believing your SS funds are safe. In order to pay for those IOU's from the govt. using your contributions they are going to have to borrow the money. Those so called U.S. Treasury Bonds that you believe you have already have been spent. Isn't liberalism wonderful?
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I present to you, your hero, President Ronald Reagan. Listen to him Conservative!

 
pbrauer said:
I present to you, your hero, President Ronald Reagan. Listen to him Conservative!

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Ronald Reagan took over a SS in total disaster and shored it up. It wasn't in the shape then as it is now and you should know that. That was decades ago and when Reagan left office the debt was 2.6 trillion, it is 14.5 trillion now and trillions are in IOU's in addition to that debt. You remain very naive on economic issues.
 
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