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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't think that would have been sufficient enough.
    its what they demanded. and it did not happen.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Cut spending by $3 trillion & raise revenue by $1 trillion. Pass it with bipartisanship and S&P's would have been happy.
    You're not going to raise a trillion dollars in new revenue, simply by raising taxes.

    Looks like killing all those jobs has turned out to be a bad idea, eh?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    No one is saying DONT cut spending. We are also saying raise taxes on the wealthy too. Im all for adding another 15% on their backs at this moment. They need to sacrifice too. Theyve been getting a easy ride for over a decade.
    You guys are talking so much bull****. Raising taxes on the rich by 15% may actually reduce revenue, because rich americans will either move or cheat. Obama tax increases will only give 70 billion dollars per year. To my ears it sounds like class warfare, not increasing revenue.

    If you want to increase revenue, then you have to increase taxes on everyone. Not just the very rich. Bush Tax cut was not a tax cut for just the very rich. It was a tax cut for everyone.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, super-high tax rates on rich people do not appear to hurt the economy or make people lazy: During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%--and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed.
    According to historical accounts that I've read, and there are probably members in this forum who were taxpayers back in the 60s and 70s, during the Reagan tax reforms which lowered the marginal tax rates there was a simultaneous gutting of thousands of deductions that people could take on their itemized returns.

    The point is that highlighting the high marginal tax rates of that era is meaningless when those tax obligations could be itemized away with expenses for your 3 martini lunch, for the strippers who entertained your clients, and who knows what else.

    Here's the upshot in graphical form.



    Look at how tax revenue is always around 19% of GDP regardless of whether the top marginal tax rate is 90% or 35%.

    Nobody every paid a real effective marginal tax rate of 90%. Who would be so astoundingly stupid as to go to work for only 10 cents on the dollar?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You guys are talking so much bull****. Raising taxes on the rich by 15% may actually reduce revenue, because rich americans will either move or cheat. Obama tax increases will only give 70 billion dollars per year. To my ears it sounds like class warfare, not increasing revenue.

    If you want to increase revenue, then you have to increase taxes on everyone. Not just the very rich. Bush Tax cut was not a tax cut for just the very rich. It was a tax cut for everyone.
    You're going to make them mess their underoos with that much reality, at once. Which is why I probably shouldn't mention that after Bush cut taxes, record revenues started to flow into the government coffers. Plus, Bush didn't kill jobs.

    My heart really goes out to the Libbos. They certainly meant well and their plan just isn't working out.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're going to make them mess their underoos with that much reality, at once. Which is why I probably shouldn't mention that after Bush cut taxes, record revenues started to flow into the government coffers. Plus, Bush didn't kill jobs.

    My heart really goes out to the Libbos. They certainly meant well and their plan just isn't working out.
    True - it didn't work out.

    so the GOP plan which is in effect and is working is . . . what?

    They're both stroking the same hookah.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    No one is saying DONT cut spending. We are also saying raise taxes on the wealthy too. Im all for adding another 15% on their backs at this moment. They need to sacrifice too. Theyve been getting a easy ride for over a decade.
    How much is enough? The US already has the most progressive tax system in the OECD?

    Barack Obama's admission that his policies would "spread the wealth around" has ignited a nationwide discussion of how progressive the tax system should be and how it should be used to redistribute income among Americans. Obama has been very successful in bolstering the conventional wisdom that the U.S. tax system does not place a significant enough burden on wealthier households and places too much of a burden on the "middle class."

    But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    True - it didn't work out.

    so the GOP plan which is in effect and is working is . . . what?

    They're both stroking the same hookah.
    The GOP plan is for the government to get out of the friggin' way and let the private sector prosper. Most of the GOP--'cept for the RINO's--has figgered out that the government can't fix the problem.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The GOP plan is for the government to get out of the friggin' way and let the private sector prosper. Most of the GOP--'cept for the RINO's--has figgered out that the government can't fix the problem.
    Ah yes - the good old 'the broken system that ****ed itself will somehow fix itself' addage.

    That would work if it wasn't already too late for it to work.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    They lowered it because congress didnt go far enough to shore up its finances. This is 100% on the fault of the Tea Party and Republicans. They needed to raise taxes on the wealthy and didnt. Now we have this!!!!!!!!!!!
    That's absurd. Raising taxes on the rich nets $70 B per year. Undoing all the Bush Tax Cuts, including the middle class, nets about $340 B per year. In good times. Your partisan rant is grossly uninformed.

    This debt was a colossal joint effort by all. Elect McCain in 2008 and while there would have bene no Obamacare, we were still going to face a massive debt issue requiring major spending cuts more sooner than later.

    When Congress, and the American people, have the willpower to do it, it will get done. Hopefully we vote Obama out, as he is most certainly a part of the problem, and replace the necessary members of Congress, with the 2012 elections. "Raising taxes on the rich" sure as hell won't get it done.

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