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United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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Yeah, it's interesting how things hit the skids after the republicans took control of the House, isn't it?

The problem, of course, is that the stimulus was too small to provide the necessary momentum to make the recovery self sustaining, and Republicans are not only making it impossible to implement further stimulus, they are in fact pushing for spending cuts, i.e., anti-stimulus. And that, Mr. Hoover, is that.

You really don't know how our govt. works do you. The fiscal year of the U.S. is from October to Sept. The Republicans didn't take ovder Congress until the second qtr of fiscal year 2011 so the Oct-December, first qtr 2011 was Obama's and the Democrat Congress.

You really are being made a fool of by the Democrat Party of today. Sad, very sad!
 
Growth may be slow, but we are not going backwards.[/qutoe] That's hardly good enough. Growth projections by the current administration and the fed have been cut, and cut.

Federal Reserve cuts GDP forecast for 2011 - Jun. 22, 2011

It's not backwards yet, and two consecutive months of negative growth would signal a recession. However, there are differences in projected growth, actual growth and growth corrections from an estimated 1.9% growth to a 0.4% growth. Couple that with inflation, the European economic issues and high debt to GDP and spending problems here at home. We're not going to grow significantly any time soon.

Obama is still managing to slowly grow the economy even with the GOP trying to destroy every aspect of his leadership, even if it means they have to destroy the economy to trick Americans. I believe congress has 15% approval rating as of current? correct me if im wrong?
You may believe that, but the GOP has no Obama leadership to destroy. Obama leadership is absent.

Poll after Poll shows Americans blame the GOP for our lack of ability to govern. Poll after Poll also shows Americans wanted a blanaced approach in terms a defecit agreement, something Obama tried to provide, but was denied because it would have made him look like a good negotiator.
Obama did not try - he had speeches, but no Democrat came out with a plan and the only two plans the GOP came out with were 1.) demagogued by Democrats and demonized (link:YouTube link), or as in the Cut Cap and Balance bill, was identified by the Democratic Senate leader Reid, "Is dead on arrival". Obama and the administration never put out their own plan during the debate, and as much as many want to believe, a speech does not equate to a plan.


You dont fix an economic mealtdown in two years, it will begin to grow faster as soon as we get the Tea baggers and GOP out of congress and actually allow the President to begin doing his job.
That's true it's not fixed in two years, but certainly fixes can be planned on and voted on in two years. What did we get with the Democrats and Obama? 1 full year of pushing through an unconstitutional health care bill that was sold as "reform" to cut costs, and it actually INCREASING costs. No leadership on jobs, no plan on jobs, in fact everything BUT jobs was addressed by the Democrats when they had a majority in both Congress and the White House. The meltdown? Addressed by spending Trillions - the result? Abject failure. Jobs: Not addressed at all by the Democratic Congress and President, another abject failure. I mean, I'd agree with you if there was some sort of substance to your claim that it takes longer than 2 years but that requires an assumption that someone's been working on it. Then we get to the tea party who, changes the discussion and turns apple cart upside down and forces everyone to discuss the debt... now they are the boogie man of the left and at fault for all things. Nice propaganda and I'm sure it's effective to the illiterate.

Ideological idiots with messages about how the tea party is the root of all evil have one objective: To continue to poison the well using lies, deceit and ignorance. I'm all to happy to point out facts and reality as an alternative to the moronic lies. :peace
 
When trying to assess responsibility for the credit rating downgrade, one must look at all the elements involved:

1. Fiscal: Structural imbalances go back to myriad Tax Code changes and entitlement programs. Costs of dealing with the financial crisis and ensuing recession have also contributed, as have the costs of three conflicts (a component of which will continue even when the conflicts are over e.g., health-related expenses for injured Vets, etc.).
2. Political Risk: The process worked badly, narrowly averting a self-inflicted crisis, and developing an inadequate fiscal consolidation solution. All participants in the process, including the President, bear responsibility.
3. Macroeconomic Risk: The long-term growth rate is likely less than the 3% real annualized figure currently assumed. S&P has not yet accepted that condition, but it would likely lead to an additional downgrade if it were to do so. The long-term growth rate is a combination of the nation's debt overhang (broad domestic nonfinancial debt, led by households and the federal government), structural factors (domestic and international), and public policy. All of those factors interact and the boundaries can be quite ambiguous e.g., public investment choices made in the past can, to some degree, impact structural factors such as workforce quality today.
 
You really don't know how our govt. works do you. The fiscal year of the U.S. is from October to Sept. The Republicans didn't take ovder Congress until the second qtr of fiscal year 2011 so the Oct-December, first qtr 2011 was Obama's and the Democrat Congress.

You really are being made a fool of by the Democrat Party of today. Sad, very sad!

Liberals aren't so quick to respond when given actual facts.
 
Keep defending the empty suit, another of the 39% that support Obama. Congressional ratings are irrelevant but play right into the hands of those who will never address the Obama record. Congressional elections are local not national yet the Presidential elections are national. 39% approval rating doesn't bode well for the cult followers.

Should I address all the strawmen here or the fact that, depending on the poll, Obama's approval rating is still about DOUBLE what Congress's is?

So you think the 4 trillion dollars added to the debt the past 2 1/2 years helped keep our rating?

When are liberals going to stop posting lies about the Clinton surplus. The Treasury Dept and the debt service we pay doesn't show any surplus yet you and others continue to post that lie.

Dear god, stop repeating this lie.

FederalDeficit(1).jpg
 
Should I address all the strawmen here or the fact that, depending on the poll, Obama's approval rating is still about DOUBLE what Congress's is?



Dear god, stop repeating this lie.

FederalDeficit(1).jpg

What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

Debt by year

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual
 
What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

Debt by year

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual


aheeemmmm you are being mis lead.

The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.
Update, Feb. 11: Some readers wrote to us saying we should have made clear the difference between the federal deficit and the federal debt. A deficit occurs when the government takes in less money than it spends in a given year. The debt is the total amount the government owes at any given time. So the debt goes up in any given year by the amount of the deficit, or it decreases by the amount of any surplus. The debt the government owes to the public decreased for a while under Clinton, but the debt was by no means erased.
Other readers have noted a USA Today story stating that, under an alternative type of accounting, the final four years of the Clinton administration taken together would have shown a deficit. This is based on an annual document called the "Financial Report of the U.S. Government," which reports what the governments books would look like if kept on an accrual basis like those of most corporations, rather than the cash basis that the government has always used. The principal difference is that under accrual accounting the government would book immediately the costs of promises made to pay future benefits to government workers and Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. But even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.
- Brooks Jackson
Sources

Congressional Budget Office, "Historical Budget Data," undated, accessed 6 Sep 2010.

The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org
 
aheeemmmm you are being mis lead.

The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.
Update, Feb. 11: Some readers wrote to us saying we should have made clear the difference between the federal deficit and the federal debt. A deficit occurs when the government takes in less money than it spends in a given year. The debt is the total amount the government owes at any given time. So the debt goes up in any given year by the amount of the deficit, or it decreases by the amount of any surplus. The debt the government owes to the public decreased for a while under Clinton, but the debt was by no means erased.
Other readers have noted a USA Today story stating that, under an alternative type of accounting, the final four years of the Clinton administration taken together would have shown a deficit. This is based on an annual document called the "Financial Report of the U.S. Government," which reports what the governments books would look like if kept on an accrual basis like those of most corporations, rather than the cash basis that the government has always used. The principal difference is that under accrual accounting the government would book immediately the costs of promises made to pay future benefits to government workers and Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. But even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.
- Brooks Jackson
Sources

Congressional Budget Office, "Historical Budget Data," undated, accessed 6 Sep 2010.

The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org

Interesting again how liberals always point to sources outside of the Treasury Dept, which of course are the numbers used to pay debt service. Notice also how liberals always ignore that Clinton economic policy gave us a GOP Congress but what the hell, anything to divert from the issues of today which of course is the Obama record and his approval rating dropping to 39%. Don't blame you because no one can defend these results. Why is Clinton and Bush even an issue today.

Here is the Obama performance the last two years

GDP growth

2009

4th 3.8

2010

1st 3.9
2nd 3.8
3rd 2.5
4th 2.3

2011

1st .4
2nd 1.3

Interesting how Democrats continue to claim that Obama inherited the problems we face today yet ignore what happened in 2010. Wonder how Obama inherited the 2011 numbers from himself?
 
Interesting again how liberals always point to sources outside of the Treasury Dept, which of course are the numbers used to pay debt service. Notice also how liberals always ignore that Clinton economic policy gave us a GOP Congress but what the hell, anything to divert from the issues of today which of course is the Obama record and his approval rating dropping to 39%. Don't blame you because no one can defend these results. Why is Clinton and Bush even an issue today.

Here is the Obama performance the last two years

GDP growth

2009

4th 3.8

2010

1st 3.9
2nd 3.8
3rd 2.5
4th 2.3

2011

1st .4
2nd 1.3

Interesting how Democrats continue to claim that Obama inherited the problems we face today yet ignore what happened in 2010. Wonder how Obama inherited the 2011 numbers from himself?

Hmmm interesting but expected how you want to change the whole friggen subject now:roll:
 
What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

Debt by year

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual

What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, who in your camp started this lie? That there was a surplus under Clinton is a FACT. That he and the Republican Congress worked together to balance the budget is a FACT. What do you not understand about the FACT that at its peak, the Clinton Surplus exceeded 200 BILLION dollars?

I'm very sorry, but a partisan hack site is in no position to refute a balanced, nonpartisan site that is actually committed to getting the facts right.
 
What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, who in your camp started this lie? That there was a surplus under Clinton is a FACT. That he and the Republican Congress worked together to balance the budget is a FACT. What do you not understand about the FACT that at its peak, the Clinton Surplus exceeded 200 BILLION dollars?

I'm very sorry, but a partisan hack site is in no position to refute a balanced, nonpartisan site that is actually committed to getting the facts right.

I gave you the Treasury site that shows the debt growing. How can we have a surplus and a growing debt? Calling the Treasury Site a political hack site is like you calling your bank statement a lie. Stop spreading the myth of the Clinton surplus because it didn't happen. Stealing from SS and putting it on Budget doesn't create a total suprlus. Why don't you find out how that balanced budget occurred instead of making a fool of yourself?
 
You cant convince these tea baggers of anything. Any facts you present to these people are downplayed with their excuses that we are just a bunch of fools, listening to that liberal media. Republicans think in a way of their way or the highway. The poor excuses of countless attempts at leadership only shows their true colors, unwilling to accept proven successful democratic administratons
As superior to their failed republican gop. These people tend to think with their wallet and bibles. Helping the poor and assisting the needy does not exist on a conservative agenda because their main goals are profit and corporate dominance in an economy that gives complete power of business over people while eliminating the middle class in the long run.

They don't believe in clean energy, global warming, or enviromental protection. Scientific data does not matter to them if it messes with corporation profits. They would eat up the ozone and drink radioactive water if they could make an extra billion. If this is the america you desire, by all means go republican in 2012.
 
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You cant convince these tea baggers of anything. Any facts you present to these people are downplayed with their excuses that we are just a bunch of fools, listening to that liberal media. Republicans think in a way of their way or the highway. The poor excuses of countless attempts at leadership only shows their true colors, unwilling to accept proven successful democratic administratons
As superior to their failed republican gop. These people tend to think with their wallet and bibles. Helping the poor and assisting the needy does not exist on a conservative agenda because their main goals are profit and corporate dominance in an economy that gives complete power of business over people while eliminating the middle class in the long run.

Keep ignoring the Obama results for that is all you can do. Facts always trump liberal rhetoric and opinions. I have seen no facts. You think CBO projections are fact wheras actual numbers from the Treasury Dept and BEA aren't? Interesting bit of logic or should I say lack of it coming from someone who claims to be independent.
 
I gave you the Treasury site that shows the debt growing. How can we have a surplus and a growing debt? Calling the Treasury Site a political hack site is like you calling your bank statement a lie. Stop spreading the myth of the Clinton surplus because it didn't happen. Stealing from SS and putting it on Budget doesn't create a total suprlus. Why don't you find out how that balanced budget occurred instead of making a fool of yourself?

In the words of Joe Wilson, YOU LIE. I am not going to be lectured by a man who cannot get his basic facts right. The Clinton surplus happened. That is a FACT. I am very sorry if that bruises your ego, and the FACT that the Republican presidents before and after him were running deficits, but these are FACTS, Conservative. They are NOT up for debate. Under the later Clinton years, revenues exceeded expenditures, and that, BY DEFINITION, created a surplus. FACT.

Furthermore, I still say that your source sucks and is without merit. Your failed attempt to dissuade my conclusion on this matter merely reinforces it.
 
In the words of Joe Wilson, YOU LIE. I am not going to be lectured by a man who cannot get his basic facts right. The Clinton surplus happened. That is a FACT. I am very sorry if that bruises your ego, and the FACT that the Republican presidents before and after him were running deficits, but these are FACTS, Conservative. They are NOT up for debate. Under the later Clinton years, revenues exceeded expenditures, and that, BY DEFINITION, created a surplus. FACT.

Furthermore, I still say that your source sucks and is without merit. Your failed attempt to dissuade my conclusion on this matter merely reinforces it.

You need to be lectured by someone as you continue to spout the lies from the left. Let me help you again, THERE WAS A SURPLUS in PUBLIC DEBT but that isn't the story and an honest individual would understand that. DEBT is created by Public Debt PLUS Intergovt. holding deficits. You cannot seem to grasp that concept. Debt when Clinton took office was 4.4 trillion and 5.7 trillion when he left so where is the total surplus?
 
Keep ignoring the Obama results for that is all you can do. Facts always trump liberal rhetoric and opinions. I have seen no facts. You think CBO projections are fact wheras actual numbers from the Treasury Dept and BEA aren't? Interesting bit of logic or should I say lack of it coming from someone who claims to be independent.


Yes I am in independent. I dont allow the letters D and R influence my opinion. I think with facts not feeling, you should try it sometime.
 
You need to be lectured by someone as you continue to spout the lies from the left. Let me help you again, THERE WAS A SURPLUS in PUBLIC DEBT but that isn't the story and an honest individual would understand that. DEBT is created by Public Debt PLUS Intergovt. holding deficits. You cannot seem to grasp that concept. Debt when Clinton took office was 4.4 trillion and 5.7 trillion when he left so where is the total surplus?

A liar lecturing someone about telling the truth is like Michael Jackson lecturing someone about protecting children.
 
Yes I am in independent. I dont allow the letters D and R influence my opinion. I think with facts not feeling, you should try it sometime.

You should try looking at actual verifiable facts instead of buying projections as fact, Tell me what facts I have presented that aren't accurate? I offer verifiable proof of what I post. Please tell me why CBO for example trumps actual data from the Treasury Dept?
 
A liar lecturing someone about telling the truth is like Michael Jackson lecturing someone about protecting children.

Seems to me it would be easy for you to prove that I lied by posting factual data from the actual numbers provided by the Treasury Dept. Why does CBO numbers trump Treasury Dept data? Do we pay debt service on CBO numbers or on Treasury Numbers?
 
You should try looking at actual verifiable facts instead of buying projections as fact, Tell me what facts I have presented that aren't accurate? I offer verifiable proof of what I post. Please tell me why CBO for example trumps actual data from the Treasury Dept?

Nope. You are a liar, and convince me otherwise.
 
Seems to me it would be easy for you to prove that I lied by posting factual data from the actual numbers provided by the Treasury Dept. Why does CBO numbers trump Treasury Dept data? Do we pay debt service on CBO numbers or on Treasury Numbers?

I am not going to engage in debate with a liar until he retracts his blatantly dishonest points.
 
I am not going to engage in debate with a liar until he retracts his blatantly dishonest points.

Look you have yet to prove me wrong on any issue, total debt went up thus there was no surplus under Clinton. You think it is ok to steal your contriubtion to SS to show a surplus in the public debt? how are these IOU's going to be repaid?

Social Security IOUs stashed away - Washington Times
 
Bush took a 200 billion dollar surplus and turned our countries economy into a dollar general when he left office. Sometimes I wonder if the GOP didnt fraud their way into winning that election, if Al gore would have lead this country somewhere of value, something the GOP has NEVER been able to do. I am willing to bet my life we would be in a much better position, probably with a debt surplus.
Yup, and remember that Bush said he was going to give that surplus back to the people even though there was debt. That's the rhetoric he used to sell his tax cuts.
 
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