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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #401
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The recession ended when the economy started expanding in 1939. It's not debatable.
    The economy "expanded" in the production of bombs and tanks. Those goods only benefitted the war effort. You cannot eat a tank and living inside one would not likely to be very comfortable. In the real world, the war years saw some of the harshest times in the history of this nation as most goods were rationed, consumption was kept at very low levels and the living standard saw a dramatic decline.

    War is not good for the economy. But you go ahead and keep spouting the same sort of nonsense Bush told us.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Don't be so foolish. This cannot be blamed on the Tea Party. Yeah! Let's squeeze a few trillion dollars from the top 1%.... The problem is spending, spending what we don't have. Raising taxes may help (or hurt) but the main problem is spending largely done by Bush and Obama.

    Spending is not our biggest problem.

    America's Problem is Low Taxes, Not Spending
    It has quickly become a Republican talkling point that the US does not have a taxation problem; it has a spending problem. No need to raise taxes, they say. Just cut all that wasteful spending, and we will be all right. After all, teabaggers tell us we are Taxed Enough Already.

    The reality is dramatically different. The chart below shows "general government expenditures as a percent of GDP". It is taken from the OECD "iLibrary" and can be found here. The bars represent each country's annual average for 2006-8. The blue bar is the average for all OECD countries combined.

    The US is the seventh bar from the left, below the average and far below most of Europe's most developed states. Note also that the gray diamonds hovering above each bar represent that govenment's average expenditure for 1995-97. They show that the spending percentage for the US was virtually unchanged for the subsequent decade.

    The reality is that US government expenditures are a relatively modest percentage of GDP. Needless to say, US expenditures would be even lower were it not for our monstrously expensive industrial-military complex.
    BlueHawaii: America's Problem is Low Taxes, Not Spending





    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    S&P's made it clear: in order to prevent a credit-rating downgrade Congress would have to pass around $4 trillion in debt-reduction in 10 years with bi-partisan support.

    the GOP chose to ignore this...so now we have lost our AAA rating.
    They used the debt ceiling as a leverage to get their demands met - and now they have the audacity to blame Obama. They are naive enough to believe that people aren't aware of what took place?



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    The economy "expanded" in the production of bombs and tanks. Those goods only benefitted the war effort. You cannot eat a tank and living inside one would not likely to be very comfortable. In the real world, the war years saw some of the harshest times in the history of this nation as most goods were rationed, consumption was kept at very low levels and the living standard saw a dramatic decline.

    War is not good for the economy. But you go ahead and keep spouting the same sort of nonsense Bush told us.
    Nothing you have stated negates the fact that WWII spending ended the depression.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Spending is not our biggest problem.

    America's Problem is Low Taxes, Not Spending
    It has quickly become a Republican talkling point that the US does not have a taxation problem; it has a spending problem. No need to raise taxes, they say. Just cut all that wasteful spending, and we will be all right. After all, teabaggers tell us we are Taxed Enough Already.

    The reality is dramatically different. The chart below shows "general government expenditures as a percent of GDP". It is taken from the OECD "iLibrary" and can be found here. The bars represent each country's annual average for 2006-8. The blue bar is the average for all OECD countries combined.

    The US is the seventh bar from the left, below the average and far below most of Europe's most developed states. Note also that the gray diamonds hovering above each bar represent that govenment's average expenditure for 1995-97. They show that the spending percentage for the US was virtually unchanged for the subsequent decade.

    The reality is that US government expenditures are a relatively modest percentage of GDP. Needless to say, US expenditures would be even lower were it not for our monstrously expensive industrial-military complex.
    BlueHawaii: America's Problem is Low Taxes, Not Spending


    The chart fails to mention that the government has over stepped it enumerated powers from 18 to over 22,000, it has a spending problem and a constitutional problem.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    The economy "expanded" in the production of bombs and tanks. Those goods only benefitted the war effort. You cannot eat a tank and living inside one would not likely to be very comfortable. In the real world, the war years saw some of the harshest times in the history of this nation as most goods were rationed, consumption was kept at very low levels and the living standard saw a dramatic decline.

    War is not good for the economy. But you go ahead and keep spouting the same sort of nonsense Bush told us.
    I agree that war is not the most effective way to stimulate the economy (broken window problem), but even a stupid kind of stimulus can be effective in sufficient quantity.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Spending is not our biggest problem.
    Why is it that so many liberals manage to correctly assess the correct tax policy when it comes to reducing gasoline consumption and getting more people to take advantage of public transport and yet they lose all sense of the principles underlying that decision when it comes time to taxing income.

    When you tax something you get less of it. Raise taxes on gas consumption and you get less usage of gas. Raise taxes on tobacco and people smoke less. However when it comes time to taxing income liberals seem to think that, unlike with gas and tobacco and the dynamic response, that behavior regarding income will remain static, that people won't change their behavior and the result would simply be a windfall of tax revenue for the treasury.



    Look at how the marginal tax rates have changed over the years and then take a look at the revenue. What you're seeing a dynamic effect, people change their behavior in response to a tax. There is no massive windfall from raising taxes, rather the economy slows so the result becomes a wash and tax revenue stays at about the same level.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    I for one find issue with just how remarkably effective the GOP has become with talking points. People actually believe so many falsehoods that are spouted as talking points. I think the GOP could be one of the most effective minorities we've ever seen. Remember the health care debates? or Fox's famed "So called government option"? "obama care"?

    A party that barely holds a majority of the House managed to out do the party that holds a large % of the house, the majority of the senate and the executive branches collectively?

    Democrats are crappy politicians and Obama is a crappy President. Obama receives the blame for this Credit Problem, not because of his policy but because of his lack theirof ability to actually lead his own party, who gets routinely destroyed by the GOP every debate.

    the GOP in a superminority watered down Obamas HealthCare Bill, got their Tax Cuts and their version of this bill passed.

    i'm no GOP supporter but i commend their excellence in influence.

    AA+ is All obama's fault
    Last edited by jgmotorsport; 08-07-11 at 02:14 AM.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why is it that so many liberals manage to correctly assess the correct tax policy when it comes to reducing gasoline consumption and getting more people to take advantage of public transport and yet they lose all sense of the principles underlying that decision when it comes time to taxing income.

    When you tax something you get less of it. Raise taxes on gas consumption and you get less usage of gas. Raise taxes on tobacco and people smoke less. However when it comes time to taxing income liberals seem to think that, unlike with gas and tobacco and the dynamic response, that behavior regarding income will remain static, that people won't change their behavior and the result would simply be a windfall of tax revenue for the treasury.



    Look at how the marginal tax rates have changed over the years and then take a look at the revenue. What you're seeing a dynamic effect, people change their behavior in response to a tax. There is no massive windfall from raising taxes, rather the economy slows so the result becomes a wash and tax revenue stays at about the same level.
    This especially applies to over time at work, for every ten hours of overtime I work the next ten belongs to Uncle Sam, therefor I don't work more than ten hours of O/T.

  10. #410
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    S&P's made it clear: in order to prevent a credit-rating downgrade Congress would have to pass around $4 trillion in debt-reduction in 10 years with bi-partisan support.

    the GOP chose to ignore this...so now we have lost our AAA rating.
    You mean the Dems wanted to pass 4 trillion in debt reduction? How do you figger that one?

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