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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #391
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    so I will return to the originally question, what gives anyone the moral authority on who has enough.
    It has nothing to do with "who has enough"; enough is never enough! It has to do with ones ability to pay a specific amount in taxation that does not cause standard of living to decrease as taxes increase.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #392
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It was a straw man because you complained about an argument that no one is making. And you just did it again. I never suggested that Clinton-era tax cuts on the rich would pay for anything, let alone SS and Medicare. My argument was that all of the Bush tax cuts should expire and that that, in conjunction with responsible spending cuts, would take care of our problem.
    Wrong. It is not a strawman because I did not say anyone was making the argument. I was talking about what WILL be necessary.

    The only way we are going to be able to finance the looming deficits in SS and Medicare is with crushing taxes, huge spending cuts in other areas or fundamental changes in both programs. None of those courses is going to be easy, especially with the naivete of those who continue to pretend we can do it all if we would just tax the "rich" a little more.

    The bankers know very well what is coming.

  3. #393
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It was a straw man because you complained about an argument that no one is making. And you just did it again. I never suggested that Clinton-era tax cuts on the rich would pay for anything, let alone SS and Medicare. My argument was that all of the Bush tax cuts should expire and that that, in conjunction with responsible spending cuts, would take care of our problem.
    How long will you maintain that these are Bush Tax Cuts. The legislation signed by Bush has expired. Obama and the Democrats gave new life to what were once called the Bush Tax Cuts when Obama signed tax relief legislation in December 2010. These are now Obama Tax Cuts.

    You see, even Obama can do something right, just like a broken clock gives the correct time twice a day.

  4. #394
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    It has nothing to do with "who has enough"; enough is never enough! It has to do with ones ability to pay a specific amount in taxation that does not cause standard of living to decrease as taxes increase.
    OK, a inheritances has already been earned and already been taxed by the person who earned it. Taxation was never meant to be a penalty on ones ability of his or hers earnings, taxation is the ability to acquire funds to be able to run our government, and in this country it would be to run the government within is constitutional boundaries. No one has the moral authority to determine who has made enough money or who has received enough gifts, at least not in a free country. Taxation should be applied equally amongst everyone regardless of social status.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    How long will you maintain that these are Bush Tax Cuts. The legislation signed by Bush has expired. Obama and the Democrats gave new life to what were once called the Bush Tax Cuts when Obama signed tax relief legislation in December 2010. These are now Obama Tax Cuts.

    You see, even Obama can do something right, just like a broken clock gives the correct time twice a day.
    Whatever you call them they should expire next year.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Is Obama really upset, or is he secretly happy that he's damaged the economy?
    Ironic how the rightwingers are trying to use a report that blames them for the credit going down

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/af2c4fac-...144feabdc0.pdf (bottom of page 4)

    Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now
    assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012,
    remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority
    of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise
    revenues,
    a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Ironic how the rightwingers are trying to use a report that blames them for the credit going down

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/af2c4fac-...144feabdc0.pdf (bottom of page 4)
    The winger branch of the republican party held our economy hostage now there running for the hills.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The GOP won the election. They weren't the ones that were in a position to forced into a deal that they didn't agree with.
    Which basically proves my point that the problem here is the GOP. Or did you not understand what you responded to?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We need to tax everyone, including the poor. So you have it exactly right. In this way we can step back from the looming "tragedy of the commons."
    But you are for lowering taxes on the rich but jacking them up on the poor?

    Does it matter? People who do not have to pay for a thing will want as much of it as they can get. That is what has happened. That is why were are here.
    The fact you have to ask suggests you do not know what they are. Google before responding please.

    If you are a net provider of tax dollars you get to vote. If you are a net consumer of taxes then you don't.

    But we have been told that social security contributions are not taxes. They are contributions toward our retirement. So for this purpose let's buy the lie a bit longer.

    It changes a great deal. When the people who pay the taxes vote but the people who consume our taxes cannot we will bring the nation's spending back in line.
    So when faced with an honest depiction of total taxes, you resort to fallacy of raising the bar. How...entirely expected of you.

    If you want to eliminate the farce that the social security taxes are contributions and agree that social security is a welfare program then I would revise my argument. But you are not likely to, are you?
    Have I argued that Social Security is not a ponzi scheme or are you going to keep pulling arguments out of your butt because you do not have the skills to actually formulate real arguments?

    Social Security is not a welfare program per se. It is a ponzi scheme.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The GOP won the election. They weren't the ones that were in a position to forced into a deal that they didn't agree with.
    S&P's made it clear: in order to prevent a credit-rating downgrade Congress would have to pass around $4 trillion in debt-reduction in 10 years with bi-partisan support.

    the GOP chose to ignore this...so now we have lost our AAA rating.

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