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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #321
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Yeah, that last one sort of confused me as to what S&P is thinking? Those "Bush tax cuts" automatically end unless Congress and the Administration pass legislation to extend them.

    The Republicans cannot do that on their own. Just like they couldn't do it on their own in 2010. The Democrats and Obama would have to sign off, too. Just like they did in 2010.

    So it is a little puzzling how this tax cut extension topic is now just a GOP thingy....?
    I think you have to read it in conjunction with the other quotes. I would guess they are assuming that the republicans will, once again, find some way to hold the country hostage in order to force an extension -- just as they did with the top tax cuts last time around.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Seems like the U.S. and much of the developed world is in a real trickbox right now. We are so dependent on government spending that the short term will mean contraction if we reduce spending. If we do not reduce spending, interest expense will be the single biggest expense, not sustainable. Not an easy answer to work our way out of this without the economy cratering.
    I like the penny plan. Make real cuts across the board of just 1%. But make them real. Make them this year. And cut the budget one percent each year until the problem is solved. We must eliminate entitlement spending. There should be no entitlements whatsoever. Every year, as part of the budget process we should determine what we are likely to bring in. That number should probably be based on a five year moving average. Then let's prioritize our spending. For every program. Every one of them. At some place in the budget there will be a cut line. Below that line eliminate the programs.

    And I am going to join my local TEA Party.

  3. #323
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Got a question... anybody!!!!

    Will this downgrade that happened for the first time in American history, will it put a nail in the coffin for Obama in 2012??? Anybody???
    Catch me if you can.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There was absolutely no reason to create this artificial deadline on deficit reduction talks. Discussions have been going on for months and should have gone on for as long as necessary to achieve a sensible compromise.
    LOL. You give the reason in the second half of your statement. Leverage. Otherwise those who want more spending behave like the North Koreans and just talk and talk and talk...

    Awesome. The Republicans should have just walked away.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Radical Karl (Marx) wrote that a steeply progressive income tax was an essential tool to the destruction of capital and to help bring about the revolution. Does anyone doubt that Radical Karl's philosophy is at the core of president Obama's political philosophy? And, for that matter, at the core of the democratic party leaderships' political philosophy?

    Can anyone else see that many of the stalwart posters here believe exactly the same thing?
    It's as plain as day. Here is illustrative proof. Obama would rather give up tax revenue to the US Treasury if it meant he couldn't punish the successful. In other words, he's more interested in punishing success than he is in maximizing tax revenue.

    From the 2008 Democratic Primary Debates:

    GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.

    So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?

    OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

    Here is an article which speaks to the attitude of the Congressional Democratic leadership:

    Mr. Cantor argued that some large portion of the income that flows through the top bracket comes from "pass-through entities"—that is, businesses—and "to me, that strikes at the core of what I believe should be the policy, and that is to provide incentives for entrepreneurs to grow."

    By contrast, he says, "Never was there ever an underlying economic argument" from Democrats. "It was all about social justice. Honestly, one of them said to me, 'Some people just make too much money.'"

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    LOL. You give the reason in the second half of your statement. Leverage. Otherwise those who want more spending behave like the North Koreans and just talk and talk and talk...

    Awesome. The Republicans should have just walked away.
    Of course! The fact that 80+% of Americans think that Congress should engage in more compromise is reason NOT to compromise. If you are a republican....

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Yeah, that last one sort of confused me as to what S&P is thinking? Those "Bush tax cuts" automatically end unless Congress and the Administration pass legislation to extend them.
    S&P is explaining why it is diverging from CBO's baseline in favor of its alternative scenario. The baseline assumes that current law will be executed as is. In other words, the Bush tax cuts would expire when they are scheduled to do so. In contrast, the alternative scenario is based on what is likely to happen i.e., most/all the Bush tax cuts would be renewed, the AMT patch would again be applied, the "doctor's fix" would again be utilized to preclude modest Medicare savings, etc. The baseline shows smaller deficits than the alternative scenario.

  8. #328
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Crow View Post
    Got a question... anybody!!!!

    Will this downgrade that happened for the first time in American history, will it put a nail in the coffin for Obama in 2012??? Anybody???
    He was voted out long before this went down.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    I am a Democrat and I take some the responsibility for this mess.
    If you are really taking responsibility then pony up some of your money. Send off a check for whatever amount of money the government wants to take from the wealthiest among us. Go for it! Repeat as often as necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    We need to reduce spending but cutting domestic spending right now would be bad for the economy. Consumer spending is already so low, that would hurt even more.
    More likely eliminating whole extra-constitutional departments, repealing their extra-constitutional regulations, and the economy would grow rapidly. Even repealing Obamacare would probably cause a jump-start to the economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    We need to raise taxes on the upper 1% and possibly repeal the Bush tax cuts altogether,
    LOL. It never takes very long to get back to punishing achievement, does it?

  10. #330
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Crow View Post
    Got a question... anybody!!!!

    Will this downgrade that happened for the first time in American history, will it put a nail in the coffin for Obama in 2012??? Anybody???
    What makes you think that this hasn't already been priced into the market? The only real way this matters is if institutions have to sell out from treasuries in a large way. Furthermore, rational people saw what Obama was willing to give. The GOP basically could not say yes to virtually anything, even cuts they would have considered too much themselves 5 years ago.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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