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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #241
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Everybody was in the army, or working in a defense factory. Doesn't mean that the depression was over, since the private sector hadn't recovered.
    The recession ended when the economy started expanding in 1939. It's not debatable.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Everybody was in the army, or working in a defense factory. Doesn't mean that the depression was over, since the private sector hadn't recovered.

    Just exactly how are you going to define a depression?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    And, you would be wrong. The United States was staring bankruptcy in the face, until after 1945. There's no way the depression was over, with bankruptcy right around the corner.
    Here, seems like you need this too ...

    Encyclopdia Britannica, Inc. Corporate Site

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The recession ended when the economy started expanding in 1939. It's not debatable.
    The hell it ain't!

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Everybody was in the army, or working in a defense factory. Doesn't mean that the depression was over, since the private sector hadn't recovered.
    When unemployment falls to those levels.... the depression was over. According to the National Bureau of Economic Analysis, the actual recession was over as of June 1938. Hopefully this is not too complicated.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    If Keynesian economics had worked, the depression wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.
    Riiight, because growth every year but one is failure. By the way, the deeper the hole, the longer it takes to climb out of it.

    http://www.housingbubblebust.com/GDP/Depression.PNG
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 08-06-11 at 02:46 PM.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The hell it ain't!

    Nothing you have stated on the matter has substantiated your position.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #248
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    They lowered it because congress didnt go far enough to shore up its finances. This is 100% on the fault of the Tea Party and Republicans. They needed to raise taxes on the wealthy and didnt. Now we have this!!!!!!!!!!!
    Bipartisan nonsense has no place in a serious discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The political dysfunctionality that was displayed in abundance ahead of the debt ceiling agreement played a role in the downgrade. In part, S&P declared:

    ...the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

    Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics any time soon.


    Standard & Poor's Downgrades US Credit Rating From AAA to AA+ - ABC News

    Aside from political dysfunctionality, the long-term sustainable growth rate is probably lower than the 3% figure that has been cited widely on account of a variety of structural issues. If, in fact, that is the case, then tax revenues will grow more slowly than anticipated over the medium-term and beyond, making it even more difficult for the nation to address its long-term imbalances.

    Finally, IMO, the U.S. would do well to conclude a credible fiscal consolidation agreement over the next year, preferably prior to the election. If that doesn't happen, S&P will likely carry through with another downgrade. Once downgrades begin to occur, the pace of such downgrades can accelerate if meaningful progress toward addressing fiscal imbalances isn't demonstrated. Ratings downgrades can increase interest rates, making the fiscal challenges even greater. Hence, a vicious self-reinforcing cycle can take hold.
    As I've already said in another thread, any meaningful fiscal policy is unlikely, and even if it did occur by some fluke, the odds are, it would be reversed in the next election.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    So they basically gave our government too much credit, and thought they were capable of solving the debt ceiling crisis in a timely, professional manner. This is embarrassing. I hope the government gets their act together as a result of this.



    Nothing says our government is broken like this...

    I don't even know what to say...

    It's just going to be an interesting Monday to see the pundits try to spin it, and they probably will try.
    And they will. Guaranteed. Americans have been lied to for so long, people rarely even know the difference.

    Please, America-turn off your TVs! It's distraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The downgrade came as a result of uncertainty that would could successfully attack our debt problem because the Democrats and Republicans can't work together on the issue. That was the goal of Republican party of "no." They brought the government to a complete standstill with their "my way or the highway" approach. The president, being the leader of the nation, gets the blame. They got what they wanted.
    This is the result of our failed two party system. When will people acknowledge the root of our problems?
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Eliminating the Bush tax cuts would raise an additional $4 trillion over the next decase, which was the targeted amount of overall deficit reduction targeted in the debt ceiling "negotiations."

    But you are right -- I was mistaken; eliminating the cuts now would not buy itself flatten the debt curve. I was thinking of a study that analyzed the situation under the assumption that the tax cuts had never been implemented. In that scenario -- even with the wars and the financial meltdown -- the debt would still be quite manageable.
    Again, you are having to make some broad assumptions as to what the tax increases would do. If you look just at the percentage of increase in tax rates, and then slice that out of likely GDP, then you do get $4T. However, tax increases do not exist in a fishbowl. They will stimy GDP, so the pie will not be as large as projected. Tax rates change behavior.

    With regard to "what-if's", in hindsight one can look at the cost of the Wars (about $1.5 T so far) and the tax cuts (about $3 T), and then make assumptions that our $14.5 T debt would only be $10.0 T right now. Possibly. But like so many things, we do not know what else would have gone differently. Had Al Qeada been able to better sustain itself in the last decade, we do not know if that would have yielded another major attack or two here, or in Europe. If and when we get the news bulletin that a major city has suffered a terrorist nuke, it will rock GDP by trillions.

    If Medicare had been set up as a balanced program, what then ? As a percent of budget, entitlements are more than twice what they were 40 years ago, from something like 30% to 66%.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    When unemployment falls to those levels.... the depression was over. According to the National Bureau of Economic Analysis, the actual recession was over as of June 1938. Hopefully this is not too complicated.
    It was a fake decline. The government can't fix the economy. It didn't happen during the great depression and it's not going to work, now.

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