Page 20 of 207 FirstFirst ... 1018192021223070120 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 2065

Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #191
    Educator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    12-06-15 @ 08:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,226

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There are several astonishing things about this downgrade.

    First, maybe it's been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but S&P made a $2 TRILLION math error in their calculations. The WH pointed this out to them but they elected to go ahead with the downgrade anyway! This from one of the principle firms that, by repeatedly assigning AAA ratings to near worthless MBAs, contributed as much as anyone to the financial meltdown. Why anyone would take them seriously is beyond me.

    This would be like your auto insurance agent running a red light and T-boning your car, and then raising your rates because you got in an accident.

    Second, this was clearly as much, if not more, about our political dysfunction than it was about our debt situation:

    "The firm's conclusion 'was pretty much motivated by all of the debate about the raising of the debt ceiling,' John Chambers, chairman of S&P's sovereign ratings committee, said in an interview. 'It involved a level of brinksmanship greater than what we had expected earlier in the year.'"

    In other words, the main factor in the downgrade was the Republican's hostage-taking tactic, coupled with their refusal to negotiate over revenues. This was an own-goal ... an entirely self-inflicted wound.
    So you believe we should be governed according to what bankers want? Why?

    We did nothing to deal with our long term problems and our representatives showed that they lacked the will to deal with those problems. Sure, one way to address it would be to raise taxes to crushing levels. The bankers don't care if we are all enslaved for their benefit and apparently neither does much of the left. But, the bankers now see that there is deep opposition to that course but not enough to make the changes necessary. The American people are still living in a fantasy land where you can have low taxes and huge entitlements. When they wake up they will find themselves in a nightmare.

  2. #192
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There are several astonishing things about this downgrade.

    First, maybe it's been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but S&P made a $2 TRILLION math error in their calculations. The WH pointed this out to them but they elected to go ahead with the downgrade anyway! This from one of the principle firms that, by repeatedly assigning AAA ratings to near worthless MBAs, contributed as much as anyone to the financial meltdown. Why anyone would take them seriously is beyond me.

    This would be like your auto insurance agent running a red light and T-boning your car, and then raising your rates because you got in an accident.

    Second, this was clearly as much, if not more, about our political dysfunction than it was about our debt situation:

    "The firm's conclusion 'was pretty much motivated by all of the debate about the raising of the debt ceiling,' John Chambers, chairman of S&P's sovereign ratings committee, said in an interview. 'It involved a level of brinksmanship greater than what we had expected earlier in the year.'"

    In other words, the main factor in the downgrade was the Republican's hostage-taking tactic, coupled with their refusal to negotiate over revenues. This was an own-goal ... an entirely self-inflicted wound.
    The likelihood of this was predicted weeks ago ...
    Majority Of Economists Say U.S. Credit Rating Will Be Downgraded

    The United States will lose its top-notch AAA credit rating from at least one major rating agency, according to a Reuters poll that also found wrangling over the debt ceiling has already damaged the economy.

    A small majority of economists -- 30 out of 53 -- surveyed over the past two days said the United States will lose its AAA credit rating from one of the three big ratings agencies -- Standard & Poor's, Moody's or Fitch.

    Respondents saw a 20 percent chance of a new recession over the next year, a prospect that some economists say has been compounded by the acrimonious political fight over what is normally a procedural legislative vote on the debt.

    Lawmakers have one week left to hash out a deficit-cutting plan without which Republicans in Congress have said they will not raise the legal $14.3 trillion debt limit, risking a potentially devastating government debt default in August.

    "We believe that Congress will act with an 11th hour deal to raise the debt ceiling. However, the risk of that deal failing increases with each passing day," said Guy LeBas, director at Janney Capital Markets.

    "I would say that the chance of a U.S. ratings downgrade is now more likely than not."

    July 26, 2011

  3. #193
    Professor
    ElCid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    08-14-11 @ 04:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,784
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    This is good news. Hopefully, it'll hurt Obama, and convince foreign countries to STOP loaning the U.S. money. This is why I wanted the U.S. Government to default.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

  4. #194
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Actually, it was the tax cuts after WW2 that did it.

    If it were true that the war ended the depression, then why are we pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan? Why do Libbos support massive defense cuts? Why are we in a depression, now? Where does the money come from for all that spending?
    The truth is that it was a combination of factors:

    * massive government spending which drastically reduced the unemployment rate;
    * the GI bill, which provided a more educated work force; and
    * we were the only major economy in the world that didn't have its factories and infrastructure bombed out.

  5. #195
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    This is good news. Hopefully, it'll hurt Obama, and convince foreign countries to STOP loaning the U.S. money. This is why I wanted the U.S. Government to default.
    It's going to hurd republicans more than Obama. Americans may be slow on the uptake, but they aren't stupid.

  6. #196
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    A belief in the country. We did not emerge because of the spending. That's a fallacy. We were still struggling like today until WWII. We won WWII and everyone had a great belief in America.

    What brought us out of our malaise wasn't spending but a belief in the country. It's the same thing Reagan did. It's the exact opposite of "default, default, default" (which both parties did) when they knew there wasn't going to be a default.
    Look at the dates....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #197
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,362

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The truth is that it was a combination of factors:

    * massive government spending which drastically reduced the unemployment rate;
    * the GI bill, which provided a more educated work force; and
    * we were the only major economy in the world that didn't have its factories and infrastructure bombed out.
    Along with more stability in the private sector, which encourged people to get out and invest money and grow businesses.

    WW2, independently, didn't have jack to do with it.

  8. #198
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    Actually, it was the tax cuts after WW2 that did it.
    You really think the Great Depression didn't end until after 1945? Oh, my.

  9. #199
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    A belief in the country. We did not emerge because of the spending. That's a fallacy. We were still struggling like today until WWII. We won WWII and everyone had a great belief in America.

    What brought us out of our malaise wasn't spending but a belief in the country. It's the same thing Reagan did. It's the exact opposite of "default, default, default" (which both parties did) when they knew there wasn't going to be a default.
    What brought our economy out of the recession wasn't that we "won" World War II, it was that we fought it, and the demand for war materiel mobilized the country's economic production...

    Of course winning the war and not being occupied helps.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #200
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    So you believe we should be governed according to what bankers want? Why?

    We did nothing to deal with our long term problems and our representatives showed that they lacked the will to deal with those problems. Sure, one way to address it would be to raise taxes to crushing levels. The bankers don't care if we are all enslaved for their benefit and apparently neither does much of the left. But, the bankers now see that there is deep opposition to that course but not enough to make the changes necessary. The American people are still living in a fantasy land where you can have low taxes and huge entitlements. When they wake up they will find themselves in a nightmare.
    The bankers just pointed out what we knew already: one of our political parties -- the one that starts with an R -- is completely fixated on thumbing its nose at the President and could not care less if it harms the country in the process.

    No one is suggesting that we raise taxes to "crushing levels". That is a straw man argument. The blindingly obvious solution to our problem is to add short-term stimulus and do significant cutting and modest tax increases in the mid/long term. Eliminating the Bush tax cuts, i.e., going back the Clinton rates that allowed the economy to flourish, would stop the growth of the debt in and of itself.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •