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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #1871
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think this has been well explained to you. I'm not sure why I bother to restate as you are so busy robo-posting the same old tired stuff I doubt you have would take the time to ponder it, but to to be succinct: Your wrong!

    Income tax receipts did drop by almost 20% after the tax cuts of last decade (see table 2.1 per the link below). The receipts increased because payroll tax receipts increase year over year due to an increasing work force and the cap raising each year. In fact, this is such a predictable increase that payroll tax receipts even increased 2009 over 2008 as the general economy collapsed and income tax receipts were in free fall.

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy10/pdf/hist.pdf

    I guess the thing that I don't get when it comes to macro economics concepts like the whole tax debate, is that simple logic seems to make sense on the right side of the argument when the conversation is about how an increase in taxation affects the bottom line, and slows a company from expanding, or hiring. And as well on the left side of the argument when discussing deductions that are manipulated for the upper tier of earners to skate from a fair obligation. But this is done by the lower tier as well through entitlements that bleed the system, and allow them to effectively pay nothing as far as income is concerned. Wouldn't it be a safe middle ground then to go back to a fair, or flat system? As a middle income earner in this country, and a tax payer I am sick and tired of carrying both ends.

    It makes sense to me to, in light of seeing that the policies and demonization of wealth, and business that has been prevalent this past three years, that this sort of rhetoric and policy isn't working to better, or even tread water at this point. Things are getting worse. Don't we have to stop the madness?

    j-mac
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Well according to you, at least by some of your rhetoric, you make it out like liberals and Obama are dictators, telling you what to do and no one can stop them and they'll never be held accountable.
    In some sense that is how they act at times, need I remind you of the infamous Pelosi comment "You'll have to pass the bill, to see what is in the bill"....But, truly no, I don't think that either party when in power takes accountability well, and I say that with full knowledge that I myself deflected arguments on a political partisan basis that in many cases is not the utmost of Independence of thinking on matters. Then again, I don't laud myself as some sort of non partisan free thinker, then post highly partisan talking point pap either. You know where you stand with me don't you, I mean it is right there in my lean. Look, I ain't perfect, but I do, and have always tried to admit when I am wrong on something. But, lately, it seems it is more about deflecting blame than actually fixing things. And that should piss everyone off.

    But then you praise november 2010 as the greatest thing since you first discovered masterbation.
    Kind of crass, but ok, see, I truly think it was a great victory to arrest the one party control away from demo's in '10. As I am sure when demo's trounced repubs in '06 you probably thought that it was a good thing. Our system seems to becoming more dependent on one party control to get anything done, no matter which party you think is right, and that is destructive. I respect you JB, I think you have some well thought out postings, and are probably a pretty fun guy to have a beer with, however, that is a far cry from having all the answers, and I think I know you pretty well to not ever think that you see yourself that way just as I don't, but that doesn't mean that everything you type is wrong....We have agreed on things in the past, have we not? There is hope friend.

    So tell me, if Obama has truly pissed off the entire nation, do you not feel he'll be held accountable by the ballot box next year?
    I think he will. The question is, how much damage will be done in the interim? And will it be a true getting back to basics, or just another severe, harsh pendulum swing to the complete other side?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #1873
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Tax burden is tax burden.... splitting hairs on the source and use is an academic exercise irrelevant to most tax payers. The "spin" is to continue this misguided notion that somehow a large percentage of the population pay no tax. Moreover, its a "spin" you often partake in yourself as you keep relying on payroll taxes each time you try to tell us that revenues went up after tax cuts. In particular, after the so-called Bush tax cuts, tax revenue did increase, as you often point out, but ONLY because payroll tax receipt increases covered up for decreases in income tax receipts. Sorry, but your party continues to co-mingle these taxes (including using payroll taxes to cover-up/pay for income tax decreases) as it happened early last decade.

    Also, has it has been pointed out to you, its nice to speak about non-taxed income, but the design of income taxation is to go after discretionary income, not total income. This is why we have personal exemptions, child credits and standardized deductions. The fact of the matter is that 50% of our population (and increasing) lives hand to mouth, without discretionary income. All in, the wealthiest in the country are not paying their fair share.... their taxes are falling and their wealth increasing.
    Let me help you here with actual dollar amounts

    Federal Income taxes per year and that has nothing to do with Payroll taxes which are a separate line item

    2000 2202.8
    2001 2163.7
    2002 2002.1
    2003 2047.9
    2004 2213.2
    2005 2546.8
    2006 2807.4
    2007 2951.2
    2008 2790.3

    If you are so concerned about tax revenue then take the advice given to Warren Buffet, send in a contribution to the govt. Are you sending your Bush tax cut back each month? Interesting how liberals are always so concerned about revenue going to the govt which just confirms what I always knew, Democrats want to keep people dependent and the best way to do that is take more money out of the pockets of the taxpayers so liberals have the money to spend and not the taxpayers

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So tell me, if Obama has truly pissed off the entire nation, do you not feel he'll be held accountable by the ballot box next year?
    The one term Marxist president Obama? Yes. He has to go.

    Have you heard that he has granted illegal aliens amnesty? He is halting all deportation proceedings against individuals meeting certain conditions. So the Kenyan tyrant needs to go back to Kenya.

  5. #1875
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Thank you for pointing this out, as it is mostly ignored. The widing gap between the have and the have nots is what caused this growth in numbers. And now we have the wealthy and their, what, supporters complaining, bemouning those who fall on the poorer side of the gap.

    Hhmm…wonder where the dough is going to come from, now that were into cutting gov spending and discretionary spending is almost nonexistent. I have read that consumer spending drives about 70 percent of economic activity in our country.Looks like were screwed.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    There is no point having any discussion with you. You are a statist. Statists cannot be reasoned with. Statists must be defeated.
    I accept your surrender
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What is sad is how Obama supporters have such low standards and ignore the record 2 1/2 years after he took office still claiming he inherited what he has created. Looks like you are among the 39% that still support Obama.

    Even sadder are the Conservatives who resist admitting that Bush got the country where it is, and just want to blame Obama for the mess their Republican policies put us in. Obama has spent less than Bush, but getting conservatives to admit it is beyond what they are capable - they can't admit the truth!

    Looks like you are among the 22% that still support Bush!



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Let me help you here with actual dollar amounts

    Federal Income taxes per year and that has nothing to do with Payroll taxes which are a separate line item

    2000 2202.8
    2001 2163.7
    2002 2002.1
    2003 2047.9
    2004 2213.2
    2005 2546.8
    2006 2807.4
    2007 2951.2
    2008 2790.3

    If you are so concerned about tax revenue then take the advice given to Warren Buffet, send in a contribution to the govt. Are you sending your Bush tax cut back each month? Interesting how liberals are always so concerned about revenue going to the govt which just confirms what I always knew, Democrats want to keep people dependent and the best way to do that is take more money out of the pockets of the taxpayers so liberals have the money to spend and not the taxpayers

    I can't believe you are still peddling that BS. I remember debunking that argument a long time ago - and yet you continue to spew it out! Unbelievable.

    The same thing can be said to conservatives that are so intent on preserving the tax cuts for the wealthy. Why don't you send the wealthy your paycheck, and let the rest of us not have to fork it out of ours.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    OK you know what got us here? 30+ years of out of control deficits. Let's be fair, and admit that the budget crisis and downgrade are not something that suddenly came up in the last 3 years. Therefore, the people to blame are: Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, O'Neill, Gingrich, Pelosi, Boehner... (I'm sure I'm missing some Speakers in there).


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The one term Marxist president Obama? Yes. He has to go.

    Have you heard that he has granted illegal aliens amnesty? He is halting all deportation proceedings against individuals meeting certain conditions. So the Kenyan tyrant needs to go back to Kenya.
    That is sooooooooooo stupid. You know I really DO want to like conservatives but everytime I read dumb-ass crap like this it just makes me want to vote for Obama just to piss off people that makes lame-ass comments like "the kenyan tyrant".

    Actually are you a sock puppet? Someone else use to say ignorant crap like that but was banned if I remember correctly.
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