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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #1701
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The problem for liberals is that the tax rate cuts saw an increase in revenue after fully implemented and liberals cannot explain it. Liberals always ignore human behavior and the benefit to the taxpayer and the economy from those tax cuts. I see no valid point in discussing lost revenue that didn't happen.
    The problem for conservatives is that even conservative economists now admit that tax cuts reduce revenue, as they did under Bush. In his case the results were masked to some degree by the real estate bubble, but we've seen how that turned out.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The problem for conservatives is that even conservative economists now admit that tax cuts reduce revenue, as they did under Bush. In his case the results were masked to some degree by the real estate bubble, but we've seen how that turned out.
    I am waiting for any economist to refute the Treasury data showing FIT revenue after the tax cuts were fully implemented. You seem to have a problem understanding the numbers again so here they are

    Federal Income Tax revenue by year from the Checkbook of the United States

    Bush tax cuts fulling implemented after July 2003
    Reagan tax cuts fulling implemented after 1983

    2000 2202.8
    2001 2163.7
    2002 2002.1
    2003 2047.9
    2004 2213.2
    2005 2546.8
    2006 2807.4
    2007 2951.2
    2008 2790.3

    1980 298.9
    1981 345.2
    1982 354.1
    1983 352.3
    1984 377.4
    1985 417.3
    1986 437.2
    1987 489.1
    1988 504.9
    1989 566.1

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am waiting for any economist to refute the Treasury data showing FIT revenue after the tax cuts were fully implemented. You seem to have a problem understanding the numbers again so here they are

    Federal Income Tax revenue by year from the Checkbook of the United States

    Bush tax cuts fulling implemented after July 2003
    Reagan tax cuts fulling implemented after 1983

    2000 2202.8
    2001 2163.7
    2002 2002.1
    2003 2047.9
    2004 2213.2
    2005 2546.8
    2006 2807.4
    2007 2951.2
    2008 2790.3

    1980 298.9
    1981 345.2
    1982 354.1
    1983 352.3
    1984 377.4
    1985 417.3
    1986 437.2
    1987 489.1
    1988 504.9
    1989 566.1
    What is that you need explained, exactly? Your own numbers show revenue falling after Bush's tax cuts. Without the tax cuts revenue would have risen, as it always does when the economy is not in recession ... absent tax cuts. Accordingly, even if tax revenue starts rising again two or three years later, you have lost two or three years of revenue growth that you will never get back. And, as noted above, the revenue rise in '05 - '07 was propelled by the real estate bubble, which, as we know, was an illusion.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What is that you need explained, exactly? Your own numbers show revenue falling after Bush's tax cuts. Without the tax cuts revenue would have risen, as it always does when the economy is not in recession ... absent tax cuts. Accordingly, even if tax revenue starts rising again two or three years later, you have lost two or three years of revenue growth that you will never get back. And, as noted above, the revenue rise in '05 - '07 was propelled by the real estate bubble, which, as we know, was an illusion.
    Yet you ignore what was posted, the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented after 2003 and as you continue to show you haven't a clue that the fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September. Bush's first tax cut was passed in June 2003 and it took four months to implement. It was a downpayment and then accellerated in 2003. Unbelievable how people like you have such a problem with keeping more of your own money. In spite of more taxpayers keeping more of what they earn and thus needing less govt. help, liberals have to continue their social engineering and massively grow the size of govt.

    Noticed how we have a real estate bubble but never a dot.com bubble. Amazing how Bush and Reagan are evil because they gave a benefit to the taxpayer but Obama is good because he grew govt. and expanded the nanny state. Says a lot about liberalism and why Obama has a 39% JAR. Do you want congratulations for supporting someone who generated these numbers?

    Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yet you ignore what was posted, the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented after 2003 and as you continue to show you haven't a clue that the fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September. Bush's first tax cut was passed in June 2003 and it took four months to implement. It was a downpayment and then accellerated in 2003. Unbelievable how people like you have such a problem with keeping more of your own money. In spite of more taxpayers keeping more of what they earn and thus needing less govt. help, liberals have to continue their social engineering and massively grow the size of govt.

    Noticed how we have a real estate bubble but never a dot.com bubble. Amazing how Bush and Reagan are evil because they gave a benefit to the taxpayer but Obama is good because he grew govt. and expanded the nanny state. Says a lot about liberalism and why Obama has a 39% JAR. Do you want congratulations for supporting someone who generated these numbers?

    Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!
    Again, either your memory or your integrity is seriously flawed. Bush's first tax cut was in 2001 -- not 2003. The CBPP, the CBO, and Treasury Department have all said that the tax cuts did not pay for themselves. Bush's top economic advisor does not claim that the tax cuts paid for themselves. Arthur Laffer, the economist lauded by supply siders, never said that the Reagan tax cuts would pay for themselves. David Stockman, Reagan's economic advisor, says that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. Alan Greenspan has said that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. In short, there is no credible economist who maintains that tax cuts have or will pay for themselves.

    Take off the wingnut goggles.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, either your memory or your integrity is seriously flawed. Bush's first tax cut was in 2001 -- not 2003. The CBPP, the CBO, and Treasury Department have all said that the tax cuts did not pay for themselves. Bush's top economic advisor does not claim that the tax cuts paid for themselves. Arthur Laffer, the economist lauded by supply siders, never said that the Reagan tax cuts would pay for themselves. David Stockman, Reagan's economic advisor, says that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. Alan Greenspan has said that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. In short, there is no credible economist who maintains that tax cuts have or will pay for themselves.

    Take off the wingnut goggles.
    Yes, June 2001 but took four months to be implemented which put it at the end of fiscal year 2001 which was Sept. You don't seem to grasp that reality. Tax cuts don't have to pay for themselves as they aren't an expense. Amazing that liberals spout that lie all the time. You keeping more of what you earn isn't an expense to the govt no matter how many times you claim it.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, June 2001 but took four months to be implemented which put it at the end of fiscal year 2001 which was Sept. You don't seem to grasp that reality. Tax cuts don't have to pay for themselves as they aren't an expense. Amazing that liberals spout that lie all the time. You keeping more of what you earn isn't an expense to the govt no matter how many times you claim it.
    You always seem to fall back on pointless word games. Tax cuts lower revenue and thus increase deficits.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You always seem to fall back on pointless word games. Tax cuts lower revenue and thus increase deficits.
    As does increased spending and raising the debt ceiling - allowing politicians to spend more money. So we're right back to where we started.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You always seem to fall back on pointless word games. Tax cuts lower revenue and thus increase deficits.
    I totally agree, we need to send more money to D.C. and let them then send us back what they think we need for our lives. I love liberalism, no personal responsibility

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    As does increased spending and raising the debt ceiling - allowing politicians to spend more money. So we're right back to where we started.
    Raising the debt ceiling does not increase the deficit when you are borrowing to pay for already-committed spending. Failing to raise the debt ceiling would send the deficit into a death spiral, however.

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