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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Should I address all the strawmen here or the fact that, depending on the poll, Obama's approval rating is still about DOUBLE what Congress's is?



    Dear god, stop repeating this lie.

    What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

    The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

    Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

    Debt by year

    Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

    The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

    Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

    Debt by year

    Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual

    aheeemmmm you are being mis lead.

    The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
    Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.
    Update, Feb. 11: Some readers wrote to us saying we should have made clear the difference between the federal deficit and the federal debt. A deficit occurs when the government takes in less money than it spends in a given year. The debt is the total amount the government owes at any given time. So the debt goes up in any given year by the amount of the deficit, or it decreases by the amount of any surplus. The debt the government owes to the public decreased for a while under Clinton, but the debt was by no means erased.
    Other readers have noted a USA Today story stating that, under an alternative type of accounting, the final four years of the Clinton administration taken together would have shown a deficit. This is based on an annual document called the "Financial Report of the U.S. Government," which reports what the governments books would look like if kept on an accrual basis like those of most corporations, rather than the cash basis that the government has always used. The principal difference is that under accrual accounting the government would book immediately the costs of promises made to pay future benefits to government workers and Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. But even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.
    - Brooks Jackson
    Sources

    Congressional Budget Office, "Historical Budget Data," undated, accessed 6 Sep 2010.

    The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    aheeemmmm you are being mis lead.

    The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
    Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.
    Update, Feb. 11: Some readers wrote to us saying we should have made clear the difference between the federal deficit and the federal debt. A deficit occurs when the government takes in less money than it spends in a given year. The debt is the total amount the government owes at any given time. So the debt goes up in any given year by the amount of the deficit, or it decreases by the amount of any surplus. The debt the government owes to the public decreased for a while under Clinton, but the debt was by no means erased.
    Other readers have noted a USA Today story stating that, under an alternative type of accounting, the final four years of the Clinton administration taken together would have shown a deficit. This is based on an annual document called the "Financial Report of the U.S. Government," which reports what the governments books would look like if kept on an accrual basis like those of most corporations, rather than the cash basis that the government has always used. The principal difference is that under accrual accounting the government would book immediately the costs of promises made to pay future benefits to government workers and Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. But even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.
    - Brooks Jackson
    Sources

    Congressional Budget Office, "Historical Budget Data," undated, accessed 6 Sep 2010.

    The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org
    Interesting again how liberals always point to sources outside of the Treasury Dept, which of course are the numbers used to pay debt service. Notice also how liberals always ignore that Clinton economic policy gave us a GOP Congress but what the hell, anything to divert from the issues of today which of course is the Obama record and his approval rating dropping to 39%. Don't blame you because no one can defend these results. Why is Clinton and Bush even an issue today.

    Here is the Obama performance the last two years

    GDP growth

    2009

    4th 3.8

    2010

    1st 3.9
    2nd 3.8
    3rd 2.5
    4th 2.3

    2011

    1st .4
    2nd 1.3

    Interesting how Democrats continue to claim that Obama inherited the problems we face today yet ignore what happened in 2010. Wonder how Obama inherited the 2011 numbers from himself?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Interesting again how liberals always point to sources outside of the Treasury Dept, which of course are the numbers used to pay debt service. Notice also how liberals always ignore that Clinton economic policy gave us a GOP Congress but what the hell, anything to divert from the issues of today which of course is the Obama record and his approval rating dropping to 39%. Don't blame you because no one can defend these results. Why is Clinton and Bush even an issue today.

    Here is the Obama performance the last two years

    GDP growth

    2009

    4th 3.8

    2010

    1st 3.9
    2nd 3.8
    3rd 2.5
    4th 2.3

    2011

    1st .4
    2nd 1.3

    Interesting how Democrats continue to claim that Obama inherited the problems we face today yet ignore what happened in 2010. Wonder how Obama inherited the 2011 numbers from himself?
    Hmmm interesting but expected how you want to change the whole friggen subject now

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty and continued acceptance of lies

    The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

    Do you understand that debt is the accumulation of public debt and intergovt. holding debt? Public debt having a surplus doesn't create a net debt reduction if offset by intergovt. holding debt. In otherwords you cannot rob from SS to show a public debt surplus and then claim we have a total surplus. Try thinking for a change. Here is the debt by year so show us that reduction in debt during the Clinton or any other Administration so if there was a surplus there would be a reduction in debt. That didn't happen.

    Debt by year

    Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual
    What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, who in your camp started this lie? That there was a surplus under Clinton is a FACT. That he and the Republican Congress worked together to balance the budget is a FACT. What do you not understand about the FACT that at its peak, the Clinton Surplus exceeded 200 BILLION dollars?

    I'm very sorry, but a partisan hack site is in no position to refute a balanced, nonpartisan site that is actually committed to getting the facts right.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, who in your camp started this lie? That there was a surplus under Clinton is a FACT. That he and the Republican Congress worked together to balance the budget is a FACT. What do you not understand about the FACT that at its peak, the Clinton Surplus exceeded 200 BILLION dollars?

    I'm very sorry, but a partisan hack site is in no position to refute a balanced, nonpartisan site that is actually committed to getting the facts right.
    I gave you the Treasury site that shows the debt growing. How can we have a surplus and a growing debt? Calling the Treasury Site a political hack site is like you calling your bank statement a lie. Stop spreading the myth of the Clinton surplus because it didn't happen. Stealing from SS and putting it on Budget doesn't create a total suprlus. Why don't you find out how that balanced budget occurred instead of making a fool of yourself?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    You cant convince these tea baggers of anything. Any facts you present to these people are downplayed with their excuses that we are just a bunch of fools, listening to that liberal media. Republicans think in a way of their way or the highway. The poor excuses of countless attempts at leadership only shows their true colors, unwilling to accept proven successful democratic administratons
    As superior to their failed republican gop. These people tend to think with their wallet and bibles. Helping the poor and assisting the needy does not exist on a conservative agenda because their main goals are profit and corporate dominance in an economy that gives complete power of business over people while eliminating the middle class in the long run.

    They don't believe in clean energy, global warming, or enviromental protection. Scientific data does not matter to them if it messes with corporation profits. They would eat up the ozone and drink radioactive water if they could make an extra billion. If this is the america you desire, by all means go republican in 2012.
    Last edited by SypherAL; 08-15-11 at 01:35 PM.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by SypherAL View Post
    You cant convince these tea baggers of anything. Any facts you present to these people are downplayed with their excuses that we are just a bunch of fools, listening to that liberal media. Republicans think in a way of their way or the highway. The poor excuses of countless attempts at leadership only shows their true colors, unwilling to accept proven successful democratic administratons
    As superior to their failed republican gop. These people tend to think with their wallet and bibles. Helping the poor and assisting the needy does not exist on a conservative agenda because their main goals are profit and corporate dominance in an economy that gives complete power of business over people while eliminating the middle class in the long run.
    Keep ignoring the Obama results for that is all you can do. Facts always trump liberal rhetoric and opinions. I have seen no facts. You think CBO projections are fact wheras actual numbers from the Treasury Dept and BEA aren't? Interesting bit of logic or should I say lack of it coming from someone who claims to be independent.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I gave you the Treasury site that shows the debt growing. How can we have a surplus and a growing debt? Calling the Treasury Site a political hack site is like you calling your bank statement a lie. Stop spreading the myth of the Clinton surplus because it didn't happen. Stealing from SS and putting it on Budget doesn't create a total suprlus. Why don't you find out how that balanced budget occurred instead of making a fool of yourself?
    In the words of Joe Wilson, YOU LIE. I am not going to be lectured by a man who cannot get his basic facts right. The Clinton surplus happened. That is a FACT. I am very sorry if that bruises your ego, and the FACT that the Republican presidents before and after him were running deficits, but these are FACTS, Conservative. They are NOT up for debate. Under the later Clinton years, revenues exceeded expenditures, and that, BY DEFINITION, created a surplus. FACT.

    Furthermore, I still say that your source sucks and is without merit. Your failed attempt to dissuade my conclusion on this matter merely reinforces it.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    In the words of Joe Wilson, YOU LIE. I am not going to be lectured by a man who cannot get his basic facts right. The Clinton surplus happened. That is a FACT. I am very sorry if that bruises your ego, and the FACT that the Republican presidents before and after him were running deficits, but these are FACTS, Conservative. They are NOT up for debate. Under the later Clinton years, revenues exceeded expenditures, and that, BY DEFINITION, created a surplus. FACT.

    Furthermore, I still say that your source sucks and is without merit. Your failed attempt to dissuade my conclusion on this matter merely reinforces it.
    You need to be lectured by someone as you continue to spout the lies from the left. Let me help you again, THERE WAS A SURPLUS in PUBLIC DEBT but that isn't the story and an honest individual would understand that. DEBT is created by Public Debt PLUS Intergovt. holding deficits. You cannot seem to grasp that concept. Debt when Clinton took office was 4.4 trillion and 5.7 trillion when he left so where is the total surplus?

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