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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The criteria should be the purpose the regulation serves.if the purpose is valid, so is the regulation.
    Okay. So you may believe that 80,000 regulations is just about the right amount. The people who actually make things happen disagree with you. Imagine the frustration evident in this quote:

    At one point, the room erupted in applause when Massachusetts manufacturing executive Doug Starrett, his voice shaking with emotion, accused the administration of blocking construction on one of his facilities to protect fish, saying government “throws sand into the gears of progress.”

    Daley said he did not have many good answers, appearing to throw up his hands in frustration at what he called “bureaucratic stuff that’s hard to defend.”

    “Sometimes you can’t defend the indefensible,” he said.
    This is the one term Marxist president Obama's chief of staff. Are we doing well? Or are we doing poorly?
    White House’s Daley seeks balance in outreach meeting with manufacturers - The Washington Post

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Okay. So you may believe that 80,000 regulations is just about the right amount. The people who actually make things happen disagree with you. Imagine the frustration evident in this quote:



    This is the one term Marxist president Obama's chief of staff. Are we doing well? Or are we doing poorly?
    White House’s Daley seeks balance in outreach meeting with manufacturers - The Washington Post
    Not what I said.I said each should be decided on their own. There is no specific number, but rather the regulation is in fact valid and needed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Boy, that sure inspires confidence in our credit worthiness. F**k you buddy, I ain't gonna pay! Nice...

    Someone wanna decode this post for me?
    How about checking with Obama and see how he defines default, took over GM/Chrysler and yet the bond holders and parts distributors were left holding the bag.

    Why don't you change your leanings to what it really is, liberal, since your posts make about as much sense. Why don't you answer the question raised?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How about checking with Obama and see how he defines default, took over GM/Chrysler and yet the bond holders and parts distributors were left holding the bag.

    Why don't you change your leanings to what it really is, liberal, since your posts make about as much sense. Why don't you answer the question raised?
    Right, those poor creditors who ended up getting something, because of the bailout, as opposed to nothing, which is what they would have gotten without it.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Very limited roles. The government did not create predatory lenders, many here argue for deregulating, and there are good reasons to encourage home ownership.
    While they did not create the predatory lenders they did know and were warned about what was about to happen and did nothing. Nobody complains about encouraging home ownership. You know that though.

    There were still laws on the books they could have enforced but didn't. There are current laws on the books they are still refusing to enforce. If Blankfein, Mozilo, Ken Lewis and others had been held accountable for their actions, IMO the country wouldn't be so down on the economy.

    But the real problems came from outside government. The greed of predatory lenders, for example, who played a larger role than government, contributed far more to this aspect. These lenders also were party to the problems internationally, as they used much the same methods loaning money abroad.
    The percentage IMO is less important than as noted above. They were not held accountable by anyone. Mozilo got a fine, but big deal.

    I think our disagreement is one of degree.
    I think we both do agree that the blame falls all around. I don't really care to place percentages of blame.

    True, but that is the nature of our system. And the 24 hour news cycle makes every day part of the election cycle.
    This is where we are to blame. We do not hold the politicians liable for their actions the way we should. There really is no justification for anyone who has held office for more than an election or two to still have a job.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What either one of us believes is irrelevent. Instead you must show either need or lack of need for a specific regulation.
    I propose we go the other way. For each of the 80,000 regulations the busybody bureaucrats have created let's have an independent panel review the regulation, its costs, its benefits and then let's allow the voters to decide. Let us ask the voters if they really want to pay another $2K for a car that meets some busybody bureaucrat's idea of how the car should be manufactured. Let's ask the voters to decide if they want to pay more for groceries because some idiotic, unaccountable bureaucrat thinks protecting a fish is more important.

    Taking a page from our political opponents page let's publish the names and addresses of those faceless, nameless busybody bureaucrats...

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The question is how limited?
    Constitutionally? If it is there it is in. If it is not there then don't pretend it is. That is how limited. Powers not specifically granted are reserved to the states or to the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Many spew the words concerning constitutionality without including the 200 years of history we have since it was written. How do we know you have the correct view of the constitution?
    I can read. And although I make no special claims, I can think.
    So can others.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    While they did not create the predatory lenders they did know and were warned about what was about to happen and did nothing. Nobody complains about encouraging home ownership. You know that though.

    There were still laws on the books they could have enforced but didn't. There are current laws on the books they are still refusing to enforce. If Blankfein, Mozilo, Ken Lewis and others had been held accountable for their actions, IMO the country wouldn't be so down on the economy.
    Yes, there were warnings. And yes, they could have enforced laws and didn't. But what you advocate in many ways is more control from government, while many conservatives are arguing for less control.

    This is but one period in time, and but one set of examples. If government had the power to cntrol the economy, especially when elections ride on how good it is, they would in fact always keep it running. They can do some helpful and hurtful things, but largely depend on the private sector to keep it going, and know that realistically, there is bound to be ups and downs. The idea that government is to blame when the economy is down, and that government is the reason when it is booming, I believe, must be fought.


    The percentage IMO is less important than as noted above. They were not held accountable by anyone. Mozilo got a fine, but big deal.
    While, as I've said before, I agree with accountability, I think the precentage is important, as it effects how we view government. If you think government controls the economy, you will seek a government fix and hold unresonable expectations, as well as giving credit where credit isn't due/


    I think we both do agree that the blame falls all around. I don't really care to place percentages of blame.
    Yes we do. But the percentage I speak of has to do with control and not blame.


    This is where we are to blame. We do not hold the politicians liable for their actions the way we should. There really is no justification for anyone who has held office for more than an election or two to still have a job.
    I largely agree with you here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Constitutionally? If it is there it is in. If it is not there then don't pretend it is. That is how limited. Powers not specifically granted are reserved to the states or to the people.

    I can read. And although I make no special claims, I can think.
    So can others.
    I have never said others can't. I worry about anyone spewing Marxist nonsense, but I think there are many out there who can think. But, many have read all kinds of documents and reach incorrect conclusions. This is true of intelligent well read people as well. So, with no intended insult, how do you know you have it exactly right?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How about checking with Obama and see how he defines default, took over GM/Chrysler and yet the bond holders and parts distributors were left holding the bag.

    Why don't you change your leanings to what it really is, liberal, since your posts make about as much sense. Why don't you answer the question raised?
    I'm sorry... what is it the bond holders would have gotten had he not stepped in? Oh... right... same squat.

    Nice try to spin. Your flailing about does not make me a liberal...

    The only reason my posts don't make sense to you is that you appear to be neck deep in conservative talking points and unable to address the issues outside of the way it's framed for you.

    My conservative principles say, fly or fall of your own doing. The automakers and the banks should have been allowed to fail, as that was their making. Period. Neither Bush nor Obama should have kneejerked into bailouts, but rather let them fail.

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