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Thread: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

  1. #1111
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    and the other is so far right



    At the same time of massive corporate socialism, subjugation of representation and non existent accountability



    or Republican



    I grew up deeply conservative. By this I don't mean far right or radically conservative, I mean steeped in the traditional values and morals of what it means to preserve, conserve those morals and values by teaching them to the next generation along with the wisdom behind them. Applying these principles is not a stagnant exercise however, it begs to be applied to progressive thinking as a complimentary counterpoint.

    Three principles that are worth conserving which both parties are completely devoid of are...

    United We Stand/Love thy neighbor... At the core of each issue is a government in whole (both parties) that has, is and continues to fail us. The partisan details of the issues are secondary and increasingly irrelevant. The reason (and it's not a partisan one) that they keep failing us must be honestly defined and changed. The primary cause today is the very partisan bickering that is keeping us divided. Fix the part that's broken, and then the details can be hashed out and not before.

    Vigilance. Never take governments or politicians at their word, especially those selling you what you want to buy. Washington's farewell address nicely summarizes the dangers of ideological thinking and/or party allegiance.

    On the primary issue facing all Americans, the failure of our representation is endemic in both parties, top to bottom. Looking to either "likely to be elected" party candidate to change anything after generations of failure on both sides is certifiably insane.
    It doesn't appear that many here understand the role of the govt. as proposed by our Founders. Our Founders never envisioned a 3.7 trillion dollar yearly expense or a 14.5 trillion dollar debt mostly due to social engineering and massive over reach of the govt.

    When 50% of the income earners totally fund the govt. the massive divide between the electorate is exactly what liberals want. Who do you think the 47% of income earners that don't pay any FIT are going to support? Obama talks about skin in the game but ignores those that pay nothing in FIT. In addition liberal compassion doesn't seem to extend to the 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans. Don't expect Obama to be talking about his record, instead he will try to destroy anyone that gets in his way for re-election

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    WTF?!?!? How do you suppose this is a valid response to my statement? Trickle-down only works when the consumer is NOT heavily indebted. Otherwise, it doesn't trickle down!
    Whether or not the consumer is heavily indebted is the responsibility of the consumer, not the govt. People keeping more of their own money gives them the choice, not the govt. what to do with that money. If they go into debt that is a personal problem, not one for the govt. to solve.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It doesn't appear that many here understand the role of the govt. as proposed by our Founders. Our Founders never envisioned a 3.7 trillion dollar yearly expense or a 14.5 trillion dollar debt mostly due to social engineering and massive over reach of the govt.

    They never envisioned the telephone, internet, television, radio, jet travel thermo nuclear weapons, etc.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The answer to the debt downgrade and economic problems facing this country today

    Obama can reclaim his dignity with one speech - NYPOST.com
    You think the removal or replacement of one man, the president, is going to change anything? You really think that will fix the problem? When since LBJ has that been the case regardless of which party was in office?

    We have grown steadily more polarized, with notable acceleration during the first GWB term when any questioning of US foreign or military policy was (in the climate of fear and imminent attack) nearly treasonous, and voices of dissent were branded enemies.

    That article is a waste of electrons as the reality of history since stands in stark opposition to this article. I hope they didn't waste any ink on printing it.
    Last edited by Occam's Razor; 08-14-11 at 11:28 AM.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    They never envisioned the telephone, internet, television, radio, jet travel thermo nuclear weapons, etc.
    What does that have to do with the debt and credit downgrade. Individuals created those items you listed and in doing so created jobs for millions and millions.

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    You think the removal or replacement of one man, the president, is going to change anything? You really think that will fix the problem? When since LBJ has that been the case regardless of which party was in office?

    We have grown steadily more polarized, with notable acceleration during the first GWB term when any questioning of US foreign or military policy was (in the climate of fear and imminent attack) nearly treasonous, and voices of dissent were branded enemies.

    That article is a waste of electrons as the reality of history since stands in stark opposition to this article. I hope they didn't waste any ink on printing it.
    The replacement of one man, GW Bush, created the following results because it put one party in charge of the entire govt. and gave Obama a blank check, NO checks and balances there

    Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Whether or not the consumer is heavily indebted is the responsibility of the consumer, not the govt. People keeping more of their own money gives them the choice, not the govt. what to do with that money. If they go into debt that is a personal problem, not one for the govt. to solve.
    If they are already in debt, paying down that debt (or saving) with the procedes from a tax cut/break/rebate will in fact do two things: First, such actions will decrease total output by the amount saved (or used to pay debt). Second, as a result of decreased output, federal tax revenue will fall only exacerbating the fiscal instability. It would be helpful to actually understand the conversation before providing us with your take.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What does that have to do with the debt and credit downgrade. Individuals created those items you listed and in doing so created jobs for millions and millions.
    Strawman.

    Nobody claimed to the contrary that individual Americans are amazing.

    The founders were far from perfect. See Slavery
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #1119
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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If they are already in debt, paying down that debt (or saving) with the procedes from a tax cut/break/rebate will in fact do two things: First, such actions will decrease total output by the amount saved (or used to pay debt). Second, as a result of decreased output, federal tax revenue will fall only exacerbating the fiscal instability. It would be helpful to actually understand the conversation before providing us with your take.
    Different issue, if they are already in debt having more take home pay helps them pay down that debt if the people choose to do that. I took the Reagan tax cuts and paid off my debt. That pay off gave my creditors more money to help expand and grow their business and that helped the economy. You seem to believe that saving or paying off debt doesn't help the economy. Looks to me like as most liberals you have no concept of human behavior and that affect on the economy.

    Interesting that I never expected you to pay for poor personal choices I made to create the debt in the first place but you seem to think it is my responsibility to pay off yours?

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    Re: United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Strawman.

    Nobody claimed to the contrary that individual Americans are amazing.

    The founders were far from perfect. See Slavery
    Founders created the greatest country on the face of the earth and did indeed make mistakes. It was no mistake however to promote a small central govt. and rest power at the local and state levels. Politicians in D.C. however saw an opportunity to create career jobs and dependence thus took it. Support for the current massive expansion of govt. says a lot about millions today who believe in the nanny state. None of those people however recognize that the nanny state is a failure, see, Britain where they have huge entitlements and now want more.

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