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S&P tells White House it will downgrade U.S. rating

donsutherland1 said:
It was just downgraded to AA-Plus.
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So now AA plus is the new AAA. Big deal.

Investors worldwide still flock to the US dollar when the **** hits the fan. That being said, is this finally enough to make the left realize Obama is ****ing up pretty bad? I don't care how bad they say Bush was, halfway through the Obama presidency our debt rating is downgraded for the first time in history.

Can Obama finally be blamed for this mess? If not Obama, the ****ing dem shyt congress he has to work with?
 
dontworrybehappy said:
So now AA plus is the new AAA. Big deal.

Investors worldwide still flock to the US dollar when the **** hits the fan. That being said, is this finally enough to make the left realize Obama is ****ing up pretty bad? I don't care how bad they say Bush was, halfway through the Obama presidency our debt rating is downgraded for the first time in history.

Can Obama finally be blamed for this mess? If not Obama, the ****ing dem shyt congress he has to work with?
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I was actually hoping this would be enough for people to realize deciding who to blame isn't enough anymore. Guess that was pretty naive of me, yes Obama and the Congress deserve some blame for this, so do all Americans as well, after all there's a personal debt crisis still in this country and after all we elected these people. So while you may want to "throw the bums out" if people just elect new bums nothing is going to change, time to be solution driven not blame driven when it comes to our voting.
 
To my knowledge this should be a significant event.

As some investments are only allowed to carry AAA rated investments, this depending on how the restrictions are written (which rating agencies and how many have to have the AAA rating still) could lead to a dumping of US government debt by private investors who will be scrambling to find AAA rated investments
 
Couple of thoughts here.

1) This was a strategic decision. S&P knew they were gonna do this days ago, and whether via advice from various people and perhaps some pressure from the White House, they've announced it today to give everyone the weekend to cool down.

2) Lord Tammerlains assessment is spot on, we'll see a massive dumping of US debt on monday.

3) Blame isn't nearly as important as solutions, there's still time to fix this, we can spend all year playing partisan games, leaving it til the presidential elections... leaving it til the next mid terms... leaving it to the next presidential elections... but until you as a people speak with once voice, instead of partisan voices of what you want, then there is no hope. You can't have it all. You think people have been hurting the last couple of years, you ain't seen nothing yet.

It's simply not enough to just cut spending.

A combination of:

Responsible Government

Effective reform of Entitlements to curb their unsustainable trajectory

Raising of Taxes on those who can afford them

Cutting spending

Swift prosecution of these matters are the ideal solution.
 
I have no idea why anyone still listens to the rating agencies anyway. The crash proved they have no idea what they are doing. If this in any way shape or form stops us from adding more debt, I'll be good with it though.
 
it's time to put Americans back to work building things. if large spending cuts are part of the equation, then increased revenue from employed people paying taxes is, as well. we won't get out of this hole without that revenue. give Americans the opportunity to work, participate in the economy, and participate as taxpayers.

the real price of "cheap" goods is becoming more and more apparent.
 
1Perry said:
I have no idea why anyone still listens to the rating agencies anyway. The crash proved they have no idea what they are doing. If this in any way shape or form stops us from adding more debt, I'll be good with it though.
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The lowering in Credit Rating means that your interest payments will go up, meaning you will pay more in the end. Had an effective solution been reached on the debt crisis, even with a massive cut in spending that may have even been harmful in some ways, you could have kept the credit rating and allowed the interest on your debt payments to stay as low as possible.

Helix said:
it's time to put Americans back to work building things. if large spending cuts are part of the equation, then increased revenue from employed people paying taxes is, as well. we won't get out of this hole without that revenue. give Americans the opportunity to work, participate in the economy, and participate as taxpayers.
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All makes for a great campaign slogan but here's another question.

How are you going to make this happen?
 
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1Perry said:
I have no idea why anyone still listens to the rating agencies anyway. The crash proved they have no idea what they are doing. If this in any way shape or form stops us from adding more debt, I'll be good with it though.
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The problem is that according to the empirical research, the ratings agencies are typically too slow to downgrade, not too fast.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The lowering in Credit Rating means that your interest payments will go up, meaning you will pay more in the end. Had an effective solution been reached on the debt crisis, even with a massive cut in spending that may have even been harmful in some ways, you could have kept the credit rating and allowed the interest on your debt payments to stay as low as possible.
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Hey, I was all for that. You're preaching to the choir here.
 
donsutherland1 said:
The problem is that according to the empirical research, the ratings agencies are typically too slow to downgrade, not too fast.
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According to real life examples, they don't know a bad risk when it's staring them in the face. Remember, the credit agencies calling absolute garbage AAA is part of the reason we are in this mess.
 
1Perry said:
Hey, I was all for that. You're preaching to the choir here.
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Fair enough bro.

I think what really happened was that the choir was singing too many different tunes, and the choir master decided to go with the dumbest song possible to get the concert over with.

Choir analogies end now.
 
Jetboogieman said:
All makes for a great campaign slogan but here's another question.

How are you going to make this happen?
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by offering a preferential tax rate to corporations that employ a high percentage of their workforce here in the states. also, by ending the wars completely and immediately and reallocating those funds to infrastructure projects (including roads, bridges, and a massive upgrade of our electrical grid). money spent on some defense projects will also have to be reallocated.

the upper individual tax rates will also have to be reconsidered, as will the ceiling on FICA. we should tweak both a little at a time until we find the correct balance.
 
Helix said:
by offering a preferential tax rate to corporations that employ a high percentage of their workforce here in the states. also, by ending the wars completely and immediately and reallocating those funds to infrastructure projects (including roads, bridges, and a massive upgrade of our electrical grid). money spent on some defense projects will also have to be reallocated.

the upper individual tax rates will also have to be reconsidered, as will the ceiling on FICA. we should tweak both a little at a time until we find the correct balance.
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Some nice specifics there.

Well its a plan, which is more I can say for the leadership at the moment.
 
1Perry said:
According to real life examples, they don't know a bad risk when it's staring them in the face. Remember, the credit agencies calling absolute garbage AAA is part of the reason we are in this mess.
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The AAA rating they gave out during the 2000s were primarily due to conflicts of interests. They were being paid to help create the MBS's and have them achieve AAA rating. If they turned around and gave them less then a AAA rating they would have lost a huge amount of consulting business
 
The solution is massive reductions in spending across the board. MASSIVE spending cuts.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
To my knowledge this should be a significant event.

As some investments are only allowed to carry AAA rated investments, this depending on how the restrictions are written (which rating agencies and how many have to have the AAA rating still) could lead to a dumping of US government debt by private investors who will be scrambling to find AAA rated investments
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True that this is why a downgrade is in fact a big deal. Here's another part of the story that's not as obvious though. Many more funds and investment vehicles don't require AAA ratings on everything, but they require that as a whole the fund carries some average rating- perhaps AA for example. So the first things that might plummet in value are the lower-graded more speculative investments that funds would be forced to drop to keep the average up. This could be the real story when a downgrade in Govies happens - the bottom players in the market could be pushed out.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The AAA rating they gave out during the 2000s were primarily due to conflicts of interests. They were being paid to help create the MBS's and have them achieve AAA rating. If they turned around and gave them less then a AAA rating they would have lost a huge amount of consulting business
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Indeed. I have no reason to believe they aren't as corrupt now as then.
 
MrVicchio said:
The solution is massive reductions in spending across the board. MASSIVE spending cuts.
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Ask Herbert Hoover how well that worked. Spending cuts are part of the right answer. Oh, and one other question: does "across the board" include the military? Oftentimes conservatives make defense uncuttable for reasons I don't understand.
 
Wiseone said:
I was actually hoping this would be enough for people to realize deciding who to blame isn't enough anymore. Guess that was pretty naive of me, yes Obama and the Congress deserve some blame for this, so do all Americans as well, after all there's a personal debt crisis still in this country and after all we elected these people. So while you may want to "throw the bums out" if people just elect new bums nothing is going to change, time to be solution driven not blame driven when it comes to our voting.
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Well what do you expect with those piddly-ass spending cuts? It makes me sick when I think of the pure coward sons of bitches we have up there, who see the sky falling yet still vote to stay elected. We have debt over our ears, and people are fighting for their freaking social security checks while the country is going financially bankrupt. The budget deal didn't do ****, as you can see by our AA-plus rating. This day was predicted long ago. The entitlements is was is ****ing this country up.
 
Across the board includes the military.
 
1Perry said:
Across the board includes the military.
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Yeah yeah, why don't we just get rid of the military altogether, and sell our aircraft carriers. Wanna bet there aren't liberals that would do it?
 
1Perry said:
Across the board includes the military.
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I'm aware of this.

However, the military is 20% of our spending, Social Spending is 55-60%. Which will have more effect on our debt?
 
American said:
Yeah yeah, why don't we just get rid of the military altogether, and sell our aircraft carriers. Wanna bet there aren't liberals that would do it?
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There is a ton of waste in the military. There is no reason we shouldn't make people responsible for getting rid of this waste.
 
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