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Thread: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

  1. #21
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    The gains have been based on corporate earnings. They are not artificial.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That is incorrect. Of course the debt ceiling contributed to the slide. It has been estimated that the included cuts will lead to hundreds of thousands of job losses and knock .3% off GDP. This is the exact opposite of what the economy needs, which is additional stimulus. The markets take all of these things into account.
    You're welcome to share your proof of your theory with us. I seriously doubt you have any, at least none from a reputable source.

    Got news for you, as Ockham stated, Europe is tanking.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The gains have been based on corporate earnings. They are not artificial.
    (Admitted simplification). QE floods the market with money. It goes into things like commodities (and we saw things like oil make huge jumps). Yes, corporations like oil companies see large profits off this.

    That causes people to spend less on other things because they are spending far more on oil. Economy drags.

    It's amazing those who claim that the middle class and poor are getting screwed by the rich but then support the very thing with programs like QE.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You're welcome to share your proof of your theory with us. I seriously doubt you have any, at least none from a reputable source.

    Got news for you, as Ockham stated, Europe is tanking.
    One from your own camp: Market Reacts to Debt Ceiling Increase | Fellowship of the Minds

    "“Three main sources of uncertainty have weighed on risky assets in recent weeks: the global growth slowdown, the fiscal crisis in the euro zone and the discussions about the U.S. debt ceiling,” Joost van Leenders, a strategist at BNP Paribas Investment Partners in Amsterdam, who helps oversee about $780 billion, wrote in a report. “This last issue has been solved for now, but the other two came back with a vengeance.”

    "Investors nervous about the prospect of a default by the U.S. government pulled money out of all forms of mutual funds, from money-market funds to those that invest in stocks.

    U.S. money-market funds experienced $103 billion in redemptions the week ended Aug. 2, the most in one week since the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in September 2008, according to iMoneyNet, a fund research firm in Westborough, Massachusetts.

    Mutual funds that invest in stocks and bonds had net redemptions of $10.4 billion in the week ended July 27, according to an e-mailed statement from the Investment Company Institute, a Washington-based trade group. It was the biggest withdrawal since the week ended May 26, 2010, when investors pulled $17.4 billion, ICI data show."

    "Wall Street Journal--

    Today’s markets were down because:

    1) Debt ceiling. Every day I have to include the debt ceiling as one of the reasons the markets were down, a little piece of me dies. Four days until the Treasury’s deadline and Congress seems to have reached a stalemate. Boehner keeps pushing forward with his bill, and finally has enough votes in the House for it to pass, only to get voted down soon as it reaches the Senate, where Democrats and Republicans alike have vowed they will block it. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is working on a budget plan that has wider support in the Senate, but it has yet to be put to a vote, until which point there’s no knowing which way it will go, especially in the Republican-led House. So in the meantime, we wait and listen to China (NYSE:FXI) complain about the US.


    2) GDP. If yesterday’s positive economic news wasn’t enough to counteract the depressing effect of the looming debt ceiling, today’s bad economic news sure isn’t going to help matters. Stocks took a huge dip this morning right out of the gate after the Commerce Department reported GDP grew at an annual rate of 1.3% during the second quarter, well below projections of 1.8% growth. While data like durable goods orders and consumer spending give us an idea of how the economy is progressing, GDP covers the whole kit and kaboodle, and the most recent figures are not good.

    3) Treasuries. While short-term Treasuries saw a moderate selling-off on Friday, as would be expected, the price on the benchmark 10-year note (NYSE:TLT) rose, pushing the yield down from 2.91% to 2.78%, the biggest one-day drop since December 2010. Longer-term investors tend to focus more on the economy than more immediate issues like those plaguing Washington at the moment, so the fact that the price of long-term notes is up shows that investors have a positive economic outlook."

    "The nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute reports that the debt ceiling deal will reduce GDP by 0.3 percent in 2012. Not good considering current growth of around 1, or 1.5 percent at best. Plus, the real cuts don't kick in until 2013. That means we'll be hitting the serious cuts while teetering on increasingly unstable footing. But that's not the grim news. The EPI is calculating that 1.8 million jobs will be killed in 2012 due to the big debt deal."

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Anybody else irritated by the phrasing in the title? "Markets pile on losses"...If something is diminishing how is it also piling on?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One from your own camp: Market Reacts to Debt Ceiling Increase | Fellowship of the Minds

    "“Three main sources of uncertainty have weighed on risky assets in recent weeks: the global growth slowdown, the fiscal crisis in the euro zone and the discussions about the U.S. debt ceiling,” Joost van Leenders, a strategist at BNP Paribas Investment Partners in Amsterdam, who helps oversee about $780 billion, wrote in a report. “This last issue has been solved for now, but the other two came back with a vengeance.”

    "Investors nervous about the prospect of a default by the U.S. government pulled money out of all forms of mutual funds, from money-market funds to those that invest in stocks.

    U.S. money-market funds experienced $103 billion in redemptions the week ended Aug. 2, the most in one week since the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in September 2008, according to iMoneyNet, a fund research firm in Westborough, Massachusetts.

    Mutual funds that invest in stocks and bonds had net redemptions of $10.4 billion in the week ended July 27, according to an e-mailed statement from the Investment Company Institute, a Washington-based trade group. It was the biggest withdrawal since the week ended May 26, 2010, when investors pulled $17.4 billion, ICI data show."

    "Wall Street Journal--

    Today’s markets were down because:

    1) Debt ceiling. Every day I have to include the debt ceiling as one of the reasons the markets were down, a little piece of me dies. Four days until the Treasury’s deadline and Congress seems to have reached a stalemate. Boehner keeps pushing forward with his bill, and finally has enough votes in the House for it to pass, only to get voted down soon as it reaches the Senate, where Democrats and Republicans alike have vowed they will block it. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is working on a budget plan that has wider support in the Senate, but it has yet to be put to a vote, until which point there’s no knowing which way it will go, especially in the Republican-led House. So in the meantime, we wait and listen to China (NYSE:FXI) complain about the US.


    2) GDP. If yesterday’s positive economic news wasn’t enough to counteract the depressing effect of the looming debt ceiling, today’s bad economic news sure isn’t going to help matters. Stocks took a huge dip this morning right out of the gate after the Commerce Department reported GDP grew at an annual rate of 1.3% during the second quarter, well below projections of 1.8% growth. While data like durable goods orders and consumer spending give us an idea of how the economy is progressing, GDP covers the whole kit and kaboodle, and the most recent figures are not good.

    3) Treasuries. While short-term Treasuries saw a moderate selling-off on Friday, as would be expected, the price on the benchmark 10-year note (NYSE:TLT) rose, pushing the yield down from 2.91% to 2.78%, the biggest one-day drop since December 2010. Longer-term investors tend to focus more on the economy than more immediate issues like those plaguing Washington at the moment, so the fact that the price of long-term notes is up shows that investors have a positive economic outlook."

    "The nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute reports that the debt ceiling deal will reduce GDP by 0.3 percent in 2012. Not good considering current growth of around 1, or 1.5 percent at best. Plus, the real cuts don't kick in until 2013. That means we'll be hitting the serious cuts while teetering on increasingly unstable footing. But that's not the grim news. The EPI is calculating that 1.8 million jobs will be killed in 2012 due to the big debt deal."
    The WSJ article is from prior to the compromise???
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Anybody else irritated by the phrasing in the title? "Markets pile on losses"...If something is diminishing how is it also piling on?
    Sort of like jumbo shrimp.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The WSJ article is from prior to the compromise???
    Yes, as stated, the markets have been falling as a result of the uncertainty over the deal, and now that this horrible deal has been cut, they're falling (in part) as a result of the deal.

    Note: I'm NOT saying that this is the only factor, or even the biggest factor. I agree that the biggest factor in recent days has been increased concern over the Euro zone. A close second is concern over the US economy and that has been serioudly impacted by the debt ceiling fiasco.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    The "markets" are not the economy. The "markets" can fall while the economy improves. As I note, remove the additional money in the commodity markets and the economy improves. Yes, Wall Street suffers for a bit until the economy actually improves and well, Timmy and Bernie can't allow that.

    The markets are NOT a good barometer for how the economy is doing especially when the government is manipulating it.

  10. #30
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, as stated, the markets have been falling as a result of the uncertainty over the deal, and now that this horrible deal has been cut, they're falling (in part) as a result of the deal.

    Note: I'm NOT saying that this is the only factor, or even the biggest factor. I agree that the biggest factor in recent days has been increased concern over the Euro zone. A close second is concern over the US economy and that has been serioudly impacted by the debt ceiling fiasco.
    Nope.........
    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- U.S. stocks plunged on Tuesday as fears about a weak U.S. economy were enflamed after investors got another disappointing economic report - this time on consumer spending.

    The selloff was so broad and so deep it pushed the S&P 500 into negative territory for the year and bond yields to their lowest levels in nine months.

    "Now that we have solved the debt ceiling issue the market has moved onto the other data, which has taken a significant turn for the worse," said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist with Schaeffer's Investment Research.
    Market Report - Aug. 2, 2011 - CNNMoney

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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