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Thread: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

  1. #131
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    All of those are great options but not the point when you exclude the idea that my life savings is gone.
    I guess I would say that your life savings would have been a lot more substantial if you had been better at saving (i.e., hadn't handed out massive tax cuts that weren't paid for and fought two wars that weren't paid for).

  2. #132
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The problem is, the theories are not working. The reason they are not working is because the underlying foundation is screwed up. Despite these low rates people are not taking advantage of them. Many that would have otherwise refinanced have done that long ago or they are in a situation where they can't.

    The Fed has screwed the pooch with their actions over the, well I'll say 15 years.

    Yes, I would say that the psychological effect of higher rates would help the economy right now. Seniors would have more money and hopefully could drop back out of the job market freeing up jobs. Less money would be going into commodities making things more affordable, freeing up money for other things. The dollar would improve which has a psychological positive effect on people.

    Yes, we should quit giving money away.

    It would initially be bad for Wall Street which is why we don't do it.

    Rebolded part
    More along the lines of 30 years, with a higher level being done in the 90s and 2000's

    As for higher rates

    They would be a double edged sword to say the least. Seniors holding secure bonds would of course be ok, but take a look at those who would be hurt by higher interest rates

    The various governments with debt (nearly all)
    Home owners. Higher interest rates would see housing prices decrease even more, as carrying costs increase
    People with debt that will be reset in a short period of time

    Low interest rates are not stimulating the economy much because people are trying to reduce debt in general. Higher interest rates would further negatively impact that aspect of the economy. Creditors would be helped up untill the point of their debtor defaulting
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  3. #133
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I guess I would say that your life savings would have been a lot more substantial if you had been better at saving (i.e., hadn't handed out massive tax cuts that weren't paid for and fought two wars that weren't paid for).
    Or if the government had:

    not paid out billions to keep union workers happy....

    not paid out billions so people could buy new vehicles that got 3 more mpg than the one they had that ran perfectly well.....

    not paid out billions to fight in a third war that we have no business in.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  4. #134
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Rebolded part
    More along the lines of 30 years, with a higher level being done in the 90s and 2000's
    O.K. but the point is this has been a long time building. It's not any one persons fault but the fault of many. It seems we agree there.

    As for higher rates

    They would be a double edged sword to say the least. Seniors holding secure bonds would of course be ok, but take a look at those who would be hurt by higher interest rates

    The various governments with debt (nearly all)
    They've knew this while burying themselves in debt. The solution for some is to add more and more debt. You don't fix a problem by multiplying it. I have a hard time feeling bad for the entity that gives an alcoholic a bottle of booze and then gets upset when they puke on their shoes.

    Home owners. Higher interest rates would see housing prices decrease even more, as carrying costs increase
    People with debt that will be reset in a short period of time
    Rather than pump Wall Street full of money we could have helped main street instead. We made it so Wall Street could get cheap money which they used to run up commoditites. I'm not a big fan of government interference BUT we would have done far, far better if we would have concentrating our actions on housing as opposed to Wall Street.

    We could have created a program that would have allowed rates to rise while still providing low rates for those wanting to buy a house. As it is now, we didn't address any of the problems. We've already agreed that Wall Street gave a big F**K you to those who thought they would use the money to hire. I'm still at a loss as to why anyone thought they would hire before the need was there, but eh whatever. Housing still sucks and Wall Street is crying for more taxpayers intervention.

    Low interest rates are not stimulating the economy much because people are trying to reduce debt in general. Higher interest rates would further negatively impact that aspect of the economy. Creditors would be helped up untill the point of their debtor defaulting
    Debtors already have the low rates. Granted, and we are simply putting this off for future drags on the economy, granted those with variable rates would be hurt. A few years ago someone argued that banks were using fraud, deciet, slight of hand and outright lies to put people into these more profitable loans. I argued that people should know what they were signing. I was proven wrong on that point.

    Banks indeed did manipulate things to get people into these loans. They should have been forced to lock in the rates where they were at.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 08-05-11 at 12:49 PM.

  5. #135
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    O.K. but the point is this has been a long time building. It's not any one persons fault but the fault of many. It seems we agree there.



    They've knew this while burying themselves in debt. The solution for some is to add more and more debt. You don't fix a problem by multiplying it. I have a hard time feeling bad for the entity that gives an alcoholic a bottle of booze and then gets upset when they puke on their shoes.


    Rather than pump Wall Street full of money we could have helped main street instead. We made it so Wall Street could get cheap money which they used to run up commoditites. I'm not a big fan of government interference BUT we would have done far, far better if we would have concentrating our actions on housing as opposed to Wall Street.

    We could have created a program that would have allowed rates to rise while still providing low rates for those wanting to buy a house. As it is now, we didn't address any of the problems. We've already agreed that Wall Street gave a big F**K you to those who thought they would use the money to hire. I'm still at a loss as to why anyone thought they would hire before the need was there, but eh whatever. Housing still sucks and Wall Street is crying for more taxpayers intervention.



    Debtors already have the low rates. Granted, and we are simply putting this off for future drags on the economy, granted those with variable rates would be hurt. A few years ago someone argued that banks were using fraud, deciet, slight of hand and outright lies to put people into these more profitable loans. I argued that people should know what they were signing. I was proven wrong on that point.

    Banks indeed did manipulate things to get people into these loans. They should have been forced to lock in the rates where they were at.
    Re Bolded part

    I generally agree

    However, to cure the problem will make everyone very sick for a period of time, instead of slightly ill for an extended period of time. Ideally the US (and other countries) would never have gotten into so much debt in the first place
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I guess I would say that your life savings would have been a lot more substantial if you had been better at saving (i.e., hadn't handed out massive tax cuts that weren't paid for and fought two wars that weren't paid for).
    I'm all for ending all three wars.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Re Bolded part

    I generally agree

    However, to cure the problem will make everyone very sick for a period of time, instead of slightly ill for an extended period of time. Ideally the US (and other countries) would never have gotten into so much debt in the first place
    No, we can not fix this in short period of time. We can not fix this by taking from those who were harmed and giving it to those who did the harm.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Or if the government had:

    not paid out billions to keep union workers happy....

    not paid out billions so people could buy new vehicles that got 3 more mpg than the one they had that ran perfectly well.....

    not paid out billions to fight in a third war that we have no business in.
    Actually the deficit would have been worse if GM and Chrysler had gone belly up, putting over a million people out of work at the height of the recession.

    Hybrid tax credits aren't even a rounding error in the budget.

    Likewise, the Libya conflict is a relatively minor expense, whether or not you agree with it.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No, we can not fix this in short period of time. We can not fix this by taking from those who were harmed and giving it to those who did the harm.
    I would tend to agree, but if those that did the harm default they will do even more harm

    High interest rates for your savings are meaningless if the capital is being destroyed as the debt gets defaulted on
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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Meanwhile, in case y'all didn't notice, the markets are still plunging. Congress squabbling over whether we can reduce the defict by $3 or $4 trillion dollars over 10 years ... and the markets have shed $4.5 trillion in the past two weeks....

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