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Thread: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I did, QE and governmnent demand (created through debt) has kept the number job loss's to a lower level then otherwise would have occured
    because the government uses magic money, and when you print, you don't lower the value of the dollar.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    A loose money supply is a problem when the economy is doing well. It's desireable when the economy is not doing well.
    The problem is, the theories are not working. The reason they are not working is because the underlying foundation is screwed up. Despite these low rates people are not taking advantage of them. Many that would have otherwise refinanced have done that long ago or they are in a situation where they can't.

    The Fed has screwed the pooch with their actions over the, well I'll say 15 years.

    Yes, I would say that the psychological effect of higher rates would help the economy right now. Seniors would have more money and hopefully could drop back out of the job market freeing up jobs. Less money would be going into commodities making things more affordable, freeing up money for other things. The dollar would improve which has a psychological positive effect on people.

    Yes, we should quit giving money away.

    It would initially be bad for Wall Street which is why we don't do it.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 08-05-11 at 10:23 AM.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The problem is, the theories are not working. The reason they are not working is because the underlying foundation is screwed up. Despite these low rates people are not taking advantage of them. Many that would have otherwise refinanced have done that long ago or they are in a situation where they can't.

    The Fed has screwed the pooch with their actions over the, well I'll say 15 years.

    Yes, I would say that the psychological effect of higher rates would help the economy right now. Seniors would have more money and hopefully could drop back out of the job market freeing up jobs. Less money would be going into commodities making things more affordable, freeing up money for other things. The dollar would improve which has a psychological positive effect on people.

    Yes, we should quit giving money away.

    It would initially be bad for Wall Street which is why we don't do it.
    You always seem to assume that things could not be worse. Unemployment is high, so the stimulus didn't do anything. Well, it did. Unemployment would be higher without it. Economic activity is low, so QE has not worked. Well, it has. If interest rates were high businesses would be in that much more trouble, and the real estate industry would be in even worse shape.

    Unfortunately the government only has so many cards it can play -- particularly when reserves have been frittered away during good times. Here the government has done enough to lift us out of recession, but not enough to give the private sector momentum to keep growing without government stimulus.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    The USA is toast and here is why:

    Massive debt
    Foreign wars
    Wages are WAY too high compared to the rest of the world
    Lazy, dumb generation of kids
    Corrupt moronic political system

    No way out.. no way out.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Inflation is extremely low based upon current standards. Based upon historical standards it was far higher. I'll have to find the link later but I believe the numbers at it's peak recently inflation measured the same way we measured it in 1978 was around 10%.

    On top of that one has to take into consideration the depressed housing market has had on the inflation numbers.
    These types of posts always frustrate me. Not because the thinking employed makes any sort of economic sense, but because people try to make points based on a limited (at best) understanding of inflation.

    Consumer preferences change from time to time; the % of expenditures allocated towards gasoline has decreased since 1978. Which means your reference to 1978 is meaningless.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    These types of posts always frustrate me. Not because the thinking employed makes any sort of economic sense, but because people try to make points based on a limited (at best) understanding of inflation.

    Consumer preferences change from time to time; the % of expenditures allocated towards gasoline has decreased since 1978. Which means your reference to 1978 is meaningless.

    Whistling past the graveyard won't work either.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You always seem to assume that things could not be worse.
    How is that different than your assumptions?

    Unemployment is high, so the stimulus didn't do anything. Well, it did. Unemployment would be higher without it. Economic activity is low, so QE has not worked. Well, it has. If interest rates were high businesses would be in that much more trouble, and the real estate industry would be in even worse shape.
    If my neighbor is out of work and I take my life savings and give it to the manager of Burger King to hire him and he does, was that successful?

    Unfortunately the government only has so many cards it can play -- particularly when reserves have been frittered away during good times. Here the government has done enough to lift us out of recession, but not enough to give the private sector momentum to keep growing without government stimulus.
    We are headed back in the other direction. What it did was temporary. It didn't work under Carter and it's not going to work under Obama.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    These types of posts always frustrate me. Not because the thinking employed makes any sort of economic sense, but because people try to make points based on a limited (at best) understanding of inflation.

    Consumer preferences change from time to time; the % of expenditures allocated towards gasoline has decreased since 1978. Which means your reference to 1978 is meaningless.
    My response was concerning how we measure inflation. It wasn't a comment on one single item. How does the fact that we measure inflation in a different way today than we did in 1978 skew my understanding of inflation?

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    If my neighbor is out of work and I take my life savings and give it to the manager of Burger King to hire him and he does, was that successful?
    Depends on the context. What are the alternatives, assuming that your neighbor can't find any other work?

    1. Do nothing for him so that he eventually runs out of money and winds up homeless or on publica assistance;

    2. Pay him to do nothing while his skills erode and he becomes less employbable by the day, or

    3. Help someone who can use the help employ him -- a one-time cost after which your neighbor will be self supporting and the BK will be more profitable.

    I'd say that option No. 3 is the best option.

    We are headed back in the other direction. What it did was temporary. It didn't work under Carter and it's not going to work under Obama.
    It's a different situation than Carter was in. Here the stimulus was too small given the magnitude of the recession.

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    Re: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Depends on the context. What are the alternatives, assuming that your neighbor can't find any other work?

    1. Do nothing for him so that he eventually runs out of money and winds up homeless or on publica assistance;

    2. Pay him to do nothing while his skills erode and he becomes less employbable by the day, or

    3. Help someone who can use the help employ him -- a one-time cost after which your neighbor will be self supporting and the BK will be more profitable.

    I'd say that option No. 3 is the best option.
    All of those are great options but not the point when you exclude the idea that my life savings is gone.

    It's a different situation than Carter was in. Here the stimulus was too small given the magnitude of the recession.
    Opinion noted.

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