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Thread: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

  1. #11
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    we wouldn't have been a lot better off if social security had been heavily invested in the financial sector in '08.

    there would have been two bailouts, which would have led to bailouts every time social security lost money in a crashing market.

    the surest way to fix social security is to raise the contribution ceiling.
    that is incorrect - as even the AARP now admits. had we allowed people under the age of 50 into private accounts back in 2005, they would now be 56, and the losses of 2008 would have been more than made up by their retirement; especially given that they would be dollar-cost averaging, and catching the upswing.

    if you are interested, i have already run and posted the relevant numbers.

  2. #12
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Guy guys guys... comon now. Don't we need more "compromise" here? I mean, the last 30 years of Compromises have brought us to this point - 100% of GDP and growing. Don't we want MORE of that so we can throw this country into riots in the large cities with burning tires in the streets with the National Guard roaming around in APV's? That's what we want right - more compromise so that can all come true. THIS is what compromise got us... it's failed, miserably. How about spending more stimulus. Yeah... that's what we need... another few trillion dollars of borrowed money to create more ****ing bridges and patch pot holes using fictitious "shovel ready jobs".


    Hope and Change baby! Hope and change....


    I know... appeal to emotion right? Or maybe strawman? Don't care.... it's frustrating as hell watching our country flushed down the toilet, so a few logical fallacies will inevitably slip through.
    Last edited by Ockham; 08-04-11 at 09:59 AM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Guy guys guys... comon now. Don't we need more "compromise" here? I mean, the last 30 years of Compromises have brought us to this point - 100% of GDP and growing.
    Err no offence, but there was zero compromise from 2001 to 2007, and the debt grew considerably during those years and what party was in total power then? Sorry but you cant come now and complain over the debt considering there was very very very few on the right that complained when the debt was rising hand of fist during the Bush administration... during a freaking economic boom.

    The US needs to break up its monopolies and write legislation for the people and not big corporate backers. Accountability and transparency are needed in the political system.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which makes him like previous presidents of both parties. what makes him unique, however, is that Bush tried to fix Social Security.
    I figured someone would have to answer for Mr. V. Here's the point, Reagan, Bush the Smarter, Clinton and then Bush the Dumber all stole the money from SS to make their administrations appear to be more fiscally sound than they actually were. Ain't no money left for Obama to steal. I'm not saying that he wouldn't. I'm saying that he cannot do as his predecessors did. What the hideously partisan Mr. V. was attempting to do is to forward an argument based on assumption based on ignorance. I'm not saying Mr.V. lied. I would suggest that he would blindly follow any party line given him by the GOP. I'm not about to accept that crap. Comparing turds to oranges, Mr. V. would have us accept his OP as sound. In truth is grossly misleading and clearly incorrect.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  5. #15
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Err no offence, but there was zero compromise from 2001 to 2007, and the debt grew considerably during those years and what party was in total power then? Sorry but you cant come now and complain over the debt considering there was very very very few on the right that complained when the debt was rising hand of fist during the Bush administration... during a freaking economic boom.

    The US needs to break up its monopolies and write legislation for the people and not big corporate backers. Accountability and transparency are needed in the political system.
    30 years worth. No compromise in 2001 -2007? There were hundreds of Congressional bills passed...


    Year Congress President Senate (100) House (435)
    2011 112th D D - 51 R - 242
    2009 111th D D - 55*** D - 256
    2007 110th R D - 51** D - 233
    2005 109th R R - 55 R - 232
    2003 108th R R - 51 R - 229
    2001 107th R D* R - 221
    1999 106th D R - 55 R - 223
    1997 105th D R - 55 R - 228
    1995 104th D R - 52 R - 230
    1993 103rd D D - 57 D - 258
    1991 102nd R D - 56 D - 267
    1989 101st R D - 55 D - 260
    1987 100th R D - 55 D - 258
    1985 99th R R - 53 D - 253
    1983 98th R R - 54 D - 269
    1981 97th R R - 53 D - 242

    Party In Power - Congress and Presidency - A Visual Guide To The Balance of Power In Congress, 1945-2008

    Senate filibuster proof majority since 1975 is 60, the house has no such "filibuster proof" number. 2001-2003 Congress was split, 2003-2006 was Republican, 2007-2010 was Democrat. NONE of those Senates a filibuster proof majority to pass whatever they wanted and ALL needed the other party to "compromise". The facts do not support your view.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    30 years worth. No compromise in 2001 -2007? There were hundreds of Congressional bills passed...


    Year Congress President Senate (100) House (435)
    2011 112th D D - 51 R - 242
    2009 111th D D - 55*** D - 256
    2007 110th R D - 51** D - 233
    2005 109th R R - 55 R - 232
    2003 108th R R - 51 R - 229
    2001 107th R D* R - 221
    1999 106th D R - 55 R - 223
    1997 105th D R - 55 R - 228
    1995 104th D R - 52 R - 230
    1993 103rd D D - 57 D - 258
    1991 102nd R D - 56 D - 267
    1989 101st R D - 55 D - 260
    1987 100th R D - 55 D - 258
    1985 99th R R - 53 D - 253
    1983 98th R R - 54 D - 269
    1981 97th R R - 53 D - 242

    Party In Power - Congress and Presidency - A Visual Guide To The Balance of Power In Congress, 1945-2008

    Senate filibuster proof majority since 1975 is 60, the house has no such "filibuster proof" number. 2001-2003 Congress was split, 2003-2006 was Republican, 2007-2010 was Democrat. NONE of those Senates a filibuster proof majority to pass whatever they wanted and ALL needed the other party to "compromise". The facts do not support your view.
    You forget that it is only the current crop of republicans who have decided to subvert the rules of the Senate by filibustering everything. How soon we forget that, for 99% of this country's existence, a simple majority was all that was required in the vast majority of cases.

  7. #17
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You forget that it is only the current crop of republicans who have decided to subvert the rules of the Senate by filibustering everything. How soon we forget that, for 99% of this country's existence, a simple majority was all that was required in the vast majority of cases.
    Not the point nor at issue here. My statement was "compromise" is what got us into this mess for the past 30 years. I've now shown there HAD to be compromise for anything to get done with some exceptions where Congress and the Presidency were in the majority. I FULLY SUPPORT and back the current tea party based conservatives (either (R) or (D) who have changed the narrative of Washington. Compromise is over hyped as what people want. We're at 100% of GDP not seen since WWII, and an economic climate not seen since the Great Depression. No more compromise.... cut and balance the budget in Washington and stabilize the economy so the private sector can compete and can grow. Do this in the next few years or the fake catastrophe over the debt limit discussions will come true - it's just a matter of time.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #18
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Not the point nor at issue here. My statement was "compromise" is what got us into this mess for the past 30 years. I've now shown there HAD to be compromise for anything to get done with some exceptions where Congress and the Presidency were in the majority. I FULLY SUPPORT and back the current tea party based conservatives (either (R) or (D) who have changed the narrative of Washington. Compromise is over hyped as what people want. We're at 100% of GDP not seen since WWII, and an economic climate not seen since the Great Depression. No more compromise.... cut and balance the budget in Washington and stabilize the economy so the private sector can compete and can grow. Do this in the next few years or the fake catastrophe over the debt limit discussions will come true - it's just a matter of time.
    My point is that you haven't shown that at all. In your argument you assumed that there had to be compromise if one party didn't have a super majority in the Senate, which was never the case ... until the new breed of republicans hijacked the Senate rules.

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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    The time for compromise is gone. Spending money we don't have must stop now. I don't give a damn if elmer fudd did it, it has to stop. If we don't reign in spending we will collapse as a nation.

    And then the hardcore repubs and demos will still be pointing fingers at each other.

  10. #20
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    Re: US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

    Sorry, but this ill-timed return to the policies of Herbert Hoover is already killing the economy. These idiotic policies have contributed to a massive selloff in the markets that shows no sign of stopping -- Dow is off 300 points just today. All of the gains of the last year have been erased in a week. Apparently we are incapable of learning from the past.

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