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Thread: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Don't confuse the captain of the rescue boat with the captain of the Titanic.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Haha... Don't be delusional. The titanic hit the iceberg in 2008.
    The financial crisis began a long time before that, actually. It started when we began outsourcing industries without replacing the jobs. The effects were largely masked by easy credit. Easy credit hit the iceberg when the housing market tanked. Now we are experiencing the aftermath of a 30 year correction all at once.

    The truth is that cutting spending isn't going to solve the problem if that's all that is done. Something is going to have to absorb the displaced workers or they will continue to not be able to participate at the level needed to keep a consumer spending based economy afloat.

    Seems like both sides have a piece of the solution. I doubt we can spend our way out of it, and we certainly can't cut our way out, either. The only way out is to pull out the stops and get people back to work. I think both government and corporate entities have a responsibility to make this happen.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, we set this course around 1980 or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    The financial crisis began a long time before that, actually. It started when we began outsourcing industries without replacing the jobs. The effects were largely masked by easy credit. Easy credit hit the iceberg when the housing market tanked. Now we are experiencing the aftermath of a 30 year correction all at once.

    The truth is that cutting spending isn't going to solve the problem if that's all that is done. Something is going to have to absorb the displaced workers or they will continue to not be able to participate at the level needed to keep a consumer spending based economy afloat.

    Seems like both sides have a piece of the solution. I doubt we can spend our way out of it, and we certainly can't cut our way out, either. The only way out is to pull out the stops and get people back to work. I think both government and corporate entities have a responsibility to make this happen.
    I agree with you here... and I was out sucking back tear-gas as far back as those NAFTA and other free-trade agreements (before I realized how politically useless protest had become), and I do agree with you both here that we were set on the path to collapse for a LONG while...

    I could also see the argument that the end of the glass-stiegall act was the collision with the iceberg, regardless in 2008 was the year where it became clear that after the housing bubble burst there wasn't much left of the economy through which to make further bubbles...

    The point I was making previous was that it's delusional to think that what this new "deal" has created is little more than making sure that the band keeps playing, that the chairs are in sequence and that the people don't freak out too hard while the ship drops below the sea.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    there are a couple things both sides could do. a massive infrastructure rebuilding project would be possible with a major reallocation of tax money. this would require an immediate end to nation building abroad.

    other ideas : perhaps we could allow corporations to pay their taxes by directly hiring people for a few years. or a lower base rate for those who hire domestically.

    i would also support ending the pot part of the drug war. there is some revenue to be generated by doing that, and a lot of enforcement money could be saved, too. i'm sure that would be controversial, but it seems that our skyrocketing debt is pretty controversial as well.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    I really like Germany's approach to unemployment. At least in part, instead of watching folks get fired and then paying them until they can find new employment, Germany pays companies to keep their employees on staff, even if it results in a shorter work week. By doing this, workers don't lose their skills and employers don't have to find and train new employees when economic conditions improve.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    I just raised my debt ceiling too and encourage all Americans to do the same thing with their personal financial situations.
    Caitlyn Strong...

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome! View Post
    I just raised my debt ceiling too and encourage all Americans to do the same thing with their personal financial situations.
    Haha... When you put it into that kind of perspective it makes you wonder what these people are thinking, and further, how that thinking somehow leads to the assumption that this will make things better.

    But, if it IS that simple (I'm sure it's not quite that simple, but similar in principle at least), and these people making these decisions know this, then you have to ask if these people are acting like this intentionally, and if so, for what purpose?

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome! View Post
    I just raised my debt ceiling too and encourage all Americans to do the same thing with their personal financial situations.
    If I had maxxed all my credit cards and was unable to pay my bills, the system provides me the option of declaring bankruptcy. I don't think we really want the US government to declare bankruptcy?

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    If I had maxxed all my credit cards and was unable to pay my bills, the system provides me the option of declaring bankruptcy. I don't think we really want the US government to declare bankruptcy?
    Yes, and usually instead of declaring bankruptcy there is first a level of inflation or hyper-inflation until nobody accepts the dollar anymore and the government as a defacto bankruptcy. Either way is painful.

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    Re: Senate approves debt-ceiling increase

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Yes, and usually instead of declaring bankruptcy there is first a level of inflation or hyper-inflation until nobody accepts the dollar anymore and the government as a defacto bankruptcy. Either way is painful.

    That choice to endure the pain was taken from the people when Barry, and wee little Timmy from NY, along with Ben decided to print more and more money. They wanted to mask the pain, and believed that contrary to historical proof that it could work this time even if Vimar should have been a stark lesson as to how that turns out. Not good for the people.

    So here we are...Left in the ashes of a Keynesian economics failure, and the usual suspects are still foolishly claiming that it isn't that Obama's misguided ideology didn't work, it is only that he hasn't been allowed to do enough of it.....Good God! I know, let's just shred the Constitution and create a "Super Committee" that will have the power to by pass the usual levers of congress and force them to do the WH will with the threat of cutting defense at a time when differing factions of this nations enemies are plotting to attack, and our borders are left totally defenseless purposely.

    This man is gone in '12....If he doesn't destroy the country first.

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