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Thread: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Romer predicted that unemployment would presently be under 8% even without stimulus spending
    i know, the president's original chair of his council of economic advisers can't get anything right

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i know, the president's original chair of his council of economic advisers can't get anything right
    Show me any economist anywhere who is 100% accurate. You can start with the CBO estimates of the huge surpluses that Bush would run up.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are a number of problems with your post here which indicate a lack of understanding.

    1) you are assuming that nothing will change, when things always change. Saying "well, if nothing changes" is a stupid comment, since things always change. It shows you want to believe the worst instead of are looking for real information.

    2) triple is an exact measure of what it is, a comparison of starting to ending amounts.

    3) We have already discussed the role of inflation and such, and then you go right back to trying to ignore it since it is inconvenient to your argument.
    i didn't ignore inflation. I did a side-by-side comparison using the modern day conversion of the debt increase under Reagan. I'm not sure why you think I'm ignoring anything, but if I'm unclear I apologize.

    As for the "nothing changing" remark...I'm not seeing anything to indicate that we'll see a spending decrease significant enough to counteract the rapid accumulation of debt. The bill passed today takes effect over 10 years and only amounts to just under $2 trillion in cuts over that time. So we could estimate that we'll see a $10 trillion increase instead of $12 trillion...still pretty significant, no?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    looking forward: Expiring gas tax may be next battle on the Hill - Byron Tau and Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

    18 cent federal gas tax expires sept 30 unless legislative action is taken to extend it

    such extensions have always been routine in the past, going back to 93...

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    i didn't ignore inflation. I did a side-by-side comparison using the modern day conversion of the debt increase under Reagan. I'm not sure why you think I'm ignoring anything, but if I'm unclear I apologize.

    As for the "nothing changing" remark...I'm not seeing anything to indicate that we'll see a spending decrease significant enough to counteract the rapid accumulation of debt. The bill passed today takes effect over 10 years and only amounts to just under $2 trillion in cuts over that time. So we could estimate that we'll see a $10 trillion increase instead of $12 trillion...still pretty significant, no?
    Did you think Obama was going to wave some magic wand and make the deficit go away? Of course it is small right now, we are recovering from a recession. Some numbers:

    ~1/4 of GDP is from the federal government
    ~1/3 of federal spending is deficit spending
    therefore, if you where to say balance the budget next year, that means even if GDP made a nice 4 % gain in private sector, you are still looking at a GDP loss of 4 %. More realistically, you are looking at 6 %. And this with massively higher unemployment.

    Complaining about the deficit when we are struggling to recover from a recession is the exact wrong time to do it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Did you think Obama was going to wave some magic wand and make the deficit go away? Of course it is small right now, we are recovering from a recession. Some numbers:

    ~1/4 of GDP is from the federal government
    ~1/3 of federal spending is deficit spending
    therefore, if you where to say balance the budget next year, that means even if GDP made a nice 4 % gain in private sector, you are still looking at a GDP loss of 4 %. More realistically, you are looking at 6 %. And this with massively higher unemployment.

    Complaining about the deficit when we are struggling to recover from a recession is the exact wrong time to do it.
    I'm not saying we need to balance the budget tomorrow. I'm saying that just under $2 trillion over 10 years seems...paltry. As far as when to complain about the deficit...do you honestly think either party is going to step up in 3 years if the economy has rebounded and say, "Hey, now that we're doing better, let's talk about spending cuts"??
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm not saying we need to balance the budget tomorrow. I'm saying that just under $2 trillion over 10 years seems...paltry. As far as when to complain about the deficit...do you honestly think either party is going to step up in 3 years if the economy has rebounded and say, "Hey, now that we're doing better, let's talk about spending cuts"??
    2T over 10 years i as start. In my lifetime, that level of reduction in real dollars or percent of deficit or any other measure has only been done once. If we go in with the assumption that politicians won't do anything to fix it, it never will get fixed. Believe it or not, I am a deficit hawk. I also realize that fixing the problem is not easy and cannot be done in the short term. But even slowing growth is a step in the right direction. The only time it happened in my lifetime was under the Clinton, give credit to him, congress, or both. So when you look at it from that point of view, it is significant. The job is not done, but starting is more than most can claim.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT
    The Republican position in this "democratic" process was that we, the minority, must get 100% of what we want and you, the majority, must get 0% of what YOU want or we are going to destroy the fu**ing economy!
    Really? I seem to remember a number of individuals in the Republican camp that didn't want to raise the debt limit at all, yet were willing to compromise and do it. I seem to remember many wanting reform of SS, medicare, and medicaid part of it, but they compromised on those. I seem to remember many wanting the Stimulus Money to be released and it be defunded, but they compromised on that. I seem to remember them wanting far more than $4 in savings over 10 years with it mostly back loaded but they were willing to compromise.

    The Republicans refused to compromise on a single position, the same position that the majority of the time the Democrats ALSO refused to compromise on, and that was increasing of taxes.

    Its pure hyper partisan spin and absolute BS to paint the Republicans as 100% unwilling to compromise and yet paint the Democrats as absolute helpless babes that just were willing to give up anything and everything but the mean old republicans just kept refusing them. Both sides drew their lines, dug in their soles, and brought it to this point.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When they chose to draw the line is the sand could be considered arbitrary. It wasn't, but it could be. The real reason why republicans chose now to draw their line in the sand, finally, is they thought they could win political points, especially with 2012 coming up, and if they should win in 2012, this opens up a little more spending room for them. You cannot go around spending nonstop, and then when the other guy spends throw a fit and hope to be seen as fiscally conservative.
    Absolutely true that this played into it. Similarly, a large reason why the Democrats refused to budget on the tax the rich and corporations issue was becuase they thought it would win them political points as well, especially with 2012 coming up. Its hardly a republican only thing going for political points. Similarly, the reason that the Democrats voted for the debt ceiling increases in years past was because politically it was better for them then causing this kind of problem in the middle of a significant war. Just like the reason Obama lambasted and chastised Bush for raising the debt ceiling when he was in congress was because it would score him political points with his base for his upcoming election campaign while having no chance of having a major effect because the rest of the party would go along with it for fear of what political backlash would come if they significantly opposed it.

    Shocker here, politicians do things for political reasons. Does that mean every politician doesn't also do things...along with political reasons...because they think its the right thing to do? Absolutely not. I'm sure there's republicans and democrats alike that honestly and truly believed that our debt was too high and we got to a point where we have to get it under control or that we absolutely have to raise taxes because people are simply not paying enough for us to sustain the things they feel we need. However, lets not delude ourselves into thinking either side's actions in almost ANY of this crap is not at least partially, if not majorly, due to political posturing.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely true that this played into it. Similarly, a large reason why the Democrats refused to budget on the tax the rich and corporations issue was becuase they thought it would win them political points as well, especially with 2012 coming up. Its hardly a republican only thing going for political points. Similarly, the reason that the Democrats voted for the debt ceiling increases in years past was because politically it was better for them then causing this kind of problem in the middle of a significant war. Just like the reason Obama lambasted and chastised Bush for raising the debt ceiling when he was in congress was because it would score him political points with his base for his upcoming election campaign while having no chance of having a major effect because the rest of the party would go along with it for fear of what political backlash would come if they significantly opposed it.

    Shocker here, politicians do things for political reasons. Does that mean every politician doesn't also do things...along with political reasons...because they think its the right thing to do? Absolutely not. I'm sure there's republicans and democrats alike that honestly and truly believed that our debt was too high and we got to a point where we have to get it under control or that we absolutely have to raise taxes because people are simply not paying enough for us to sustain the things they feel we need. However, lets not delude ourselves into thinking either side's actions in almost ANY of this crap is not at least partially, if not majorly, due to political posturing.
    Absolutely the tax stuff for democrats was political theater, and you already know I am more to the right on that issue than even you are.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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