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Thread: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's interest payments, so it is a recurring cost, and it is from one day. Of course you knew that since you read the source...
    LOL - yes let's take interest into account so this looks REALLY ridiculous.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Please show me the $5+ trillion in "stimulus related spending" that has caused the increase we've seen.
    First, spending has not increased by $5+ trillion. You are talking about the increase in deficits which are also the result of decreased revenue as a result of the recession. In terms of extraordinary stimulus spending you can count:

    $168 billion (Bush 2008 tax rebates)
    $390 billion (TARP)
    $850 billion (stimulus bill)
    $ 80 billion (Bush/Obama auto bailouts)
    $ 60 billion (extending unemployment)

    for a total of about $1.5 trillion. Then we have also lost between one and two trillion dollars as a result of reduced revenue collection due to the recession.

    So let's say that $3 trillion out of the $5 trillion is directly attributable to the recession and not the result of long-term policy problems. That still leaves a sizeable shortfall, but it's not unmanageable.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. I said earlier in this thread that policies from the last several decades have caused a multitude of our problems. However, from 2007-2011 we've seen the debt increase over $5 trillion dollars. That's $5 trillion of just under $15 trillion, or 1/3 of the total debt....in 4 years. And again, I'm not blaming Obama and Obama alone. His senate position and his presidency automatically load him up with some level of culpability. As do the legislative positions of everybody in the house and senate any time from 2007 to 2011, as well as the presidency of GWB. In less than 3 years, the debt has increased almost $4 trillion dollars, which is a little more than $1.5 trillion a year. If Obama serves two terms and we do not curb spending, that means he'll have resided over $12 trillion in new debt, which more than doubles the debt level that existed at the end of GWB's presidency.

    Now, the chart I found shows that Reagan resided over a total increase of $3.2 trillion dollars. Considering the changing value of the dollar, that would be about $7.23 trillion today.
    See, there is this thing called inflation. What it means is that 5t today is much less than 5t several years ago. This is what I am talking about with buying what you are told without examining it. Saying "OMG, 5 trillion dollars" is meaningless without a frame of reference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    See, there is this thing called inflation. What it means is that 5t today is much less than 5t several years ago. This is what I am talking about with buying what you are told without examining it. Saying "OMG, 5 trillion dollars" is meaningless without a frame of reference.
    To be fair, she took inflation into account in her last sentence.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    LOL - yes let's take interest into account so this looks REALLY ridiculous.
    So you really do not know how interest payments work? Hint: they happen more than once.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    To be fair, she took inflation into account in her last sentence.
    True, but again she is not looking at all the other factors, such as GDP level, size of debt, and so on. The biggest issue we have here is that people only look at what supports there case, and there are so many ways to put out economic data it is unreal. In no way has Obama come close to adding to the debt in the same manner Reagan or Bush did, and that is considering he has not yet had time to show whether he would have, post recovery done the right thing, or done as Reagan and Bush did and keep right on spending.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    See, there is this thing called inflation. What it means is that 5t today is much less than 5t several years ago. This is what I am talking about with buying what you are told without examining it. Saying "OMG, 5 trillion dollars" is meaningless without a frame of reference.
    To be fair, most conservatives dont know what inflation is since they rarely (at least on these boards) adjust for it in any statistical material they present as "evidence" of how bad the left has screwed the American people.... which of course makes their argument at best laugable... much like Michele Bachmann's comment about she wanting the dollar today as having the same value as the dollar of 1911...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    See, there is this thing called inflation. What it means is that 5t today is much less than 5t several years ago. This is what I am talking about with buying what you are told without examining it. Saying "OMG, 5 trillion dollars" is meaningless without a frame of reference.
    I provided you with a comparison between 1982 and today. Today, the debt under Reagan would equate to about 7.23 trillion. So using today's numbers, we've almost matched in 4 years what took 8 years when he was president.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I provided you with a comparison between 1982 and today. Today, the debt under Reagan would equate to about 7.23 trillion. So using today's numbers, we've almost matched in 4 years what took 8 years when he was president.
    What was Reagan's starting and ending deficit? Why don't you want to look at the whole picture?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    To be fair, most conservatives dont know what inflation is since they rarely (at least on these boards) adjust for it in any statistical material they present as "evidence" of how bad the left has screwed the American people.... which of course makes their argument at best laugable... much like Michele Bachmann's comment about she wanting the dollar today as having the same value as the dollar of 1911...
    To be fair, you obviously didn't read my post and just jumped at the chance to throw cons under the bus, as I very clearly referenced a comparison on the basis of inflation in my last sentence.

    Also, to be fair, Redress initially referenced Reagan tripling the debt, and my retort was in response to that relatively ambiguous view of debt increase.

    Why is it, Pete, that all you do is post insulting generalizations and ignorant assumptions about the right, while contributing nothing and failing to respond to sound points made by those you disagree with?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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