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Thread: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are intentionally distorting the NO vote from the Democrats? Yeah - I know - silly question. Many of those favored other alternatives instead of kissing the posterior of the tea party. Many favored giving the far right NOTHING and simply invoke the 14th Amendment. That would have been far better.
    Well then, there's a lovely load of hypocrisy. I hope not to see another post from you lamenting the GOP's lack of willingness to compromise, then.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Senate Voting on Debt Plan, 60 Votes Needed | C-SPAN

    Edit: a lot of "no" votes going on from both sides...what the heck...douchebags
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 08-02-11 at 01:27 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The problem I have is the rate at which spending increased from 2007 to 2011. It is not entirely on Obama's shoulders as President, but as a senator he certainly had a hand in it. The legislators who voted and led the charge on spending for the past four years have shown us an unprecendented increase in debt accumulation and borrowing. I'm not a "doom and gloom" type and try to avoid hyperbole, but we simply can't afford to keep putting off the inevitable. I have no problem with gradual cuts over time for some programs. I do, however, have a problem with the idea that there aren't plenty of ways in which the government COULD cut spending RIGHT NOW, in a significant manner, without hitting the economy too badly. The waste, red tape, redundancy, fraud, foreign aid payments, UN budget, excessive war spending, etc...could all be rachetted down without causing significant job loss. A new bill allowing price negotiations with approved pharmacies in Canada, Mexico, and overseas could save a massive amount of money for medicaid/medicare, means-testing for social security, medicaid, and medicare could save a lot of money every year, work-to-play programs for welfare would eliminate jobs but would also provide marketable skills for welfare recipients and cut municipal costs (and federal aid needs) simultaneously.

    I read an article over the weekend that even if we increase the debt ceiling will still risk a lowered credit rating because we're borrowing way too much of what we spend. How long can we play chicken with our credit rating overall before that, too, causes our economy to suffer? We're up against a wall here, and bad policy on both sides got us here. We're going to have to take our medicine and suffer through, regardless of which scenario plays out. There's no possible action we could take right now that will prevent us from hitting another low spot, IMO, so why don't we take the road that will lead us to the best long-term outcome?
    You do realize that the extraordinary spending over the last four years has been in response to an extraordinary economic collapse, right? One can argue that Keynesian economics is wrong and that we shouldn't spend to stimulate the economy during recession, but it's nonsensical to look at what is clearly stimulus-related spending and then project that it is intended to continue indefinitely. When the economy recovers spending will naturally abate and revenues will naturally rise. Some work needs to be done to cut spending further and bump revenue up, but there is no reason to have a panic attack based on irrational projections.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are buying into what you are told without examining it. Reagan tripled the debt, and he is the republican deity. Obama was highly unlikely to do nearly that.
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. I said earlier in this thread that policies from the last several decades have caused a multitude of our problems. However, from 2007-2011 we've seen the debt increase over $5 trillion dollars. That's $5 trillion of just under $15 trillion, or 1/3 of the total debt....in 4 years. And again, I'm not blaming Obama and Obama alone. His senate position and his presidency automatically load him up with some level of culpability. As do the legislative positions of everybody in the house and senate any time from 2007 to 2011, as well as the presidency of GWB. In less than 3 years, the debt has increased almost $4 trillion dollars, which is a little more than $1.5 trillion a year. If Obama serves two terms and we do not curb spending, that means he'll have resided over $12 trillion in new debt, which more than doubles the debt level that existed at the end of GWB's presidency.

    Now, the chart I found shows that Reagan resided over a total increase of $3.2 trillion dollars. Considering the changing value of the dollar, that would be about $7.23 trillion today.
    Last edited by tessaesque; 08-02-11 at 01:34 PM.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You do realize that the extraordinary spending over the last four years has been in response to an extraordinary economic collapse, right? One can argue that Keynesian economics is wrong and that we shouldn't spend to stimulate the economy during recession, but it's nonsensical to look at what is clearly stimulus-related spending and then project that it is intended to continue indefinitely. When the economy recovers spending will naturally abate and revenues will naturally rise. Some work needs to be done to cut spending further and bump revenue up, but there is no reason to have a panic attack based on irrational projections.
    Please show me the $5+ trillion in "stimulus related spending" that has caused the increase we've seen.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Conservatives don't care about the cost as long as it serves their political goals, in my opinion.

    Debt ceiling cost: $1.7 billion for Treasury bills - Aug. 1, 2011
    It will be more than that. A lot of payments were deferred to keep the country solvent until today, those deferred payments will need their interest made up.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    I don't understand all this rhetoric over the debt ceiling. It has nothing to do with borrowing more money. It's about ensuring that we can pay back the money we've already spent. The debate was weather or not to refuse to pay our debts.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    The Senate passed with 75 Aye votes.

    Edit: on a side note, according to Sen. McCain the Senate will move quickly to confirm several Joint Chiefs of Staff Positions, including Gen. Martin Dempsey as CJCS and Gen. Odierno as Chief of Staff of the Army.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 08-02-11 at 01:46 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Well then, there's a lovely load of hypocrisy. I hope not to see another post from you lamenting the GOP's lack of willingness to compromise, then.
    Cooperate with what exactly? This was a manufactured crisis by the right in order to hold the nation and its economy hostage. Do you cooperate with that or squash that sort of treason like a bug?

    Obama made the wrong decision. He refuses to accept that this is a WAR and there is an ENEMY which must be vanquished.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-02-11 at 01:48 PM.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There is no give and take. Either the republicans get what they want, and Obama gets nothing he wants, or they will go to any extreme to stop it.
    what's weird is it's been going on pretty much non stop for two and a half years now...

    and the american people so richly reward the neanderthals for all their no's

    Obama concedes shellacking - Washington Times

    why?

    The Tea Party has been a disaster for this country.
    if not for tea

    Harry Reid calls for clean debt ceiling vote - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

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