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Thread: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When they chose to draw the line is the sand could be considered arbitrary. It wasn't, but it could be. The real reason why republicans chose now to draw their line in the sand, finally, is they thought they could win political points, especially with 2012 coming up, and if they should win in 2012, this opens up a little more spending room for them. You cannot go around spending nonstop, and then when the other guy spends throw a fit and hope to be seen as fiscally conservative.
    I don't deny that their actions are nothing if not politically motivated. But as I've said before, I really don't care why or who, as long as somebody starts focusing on our very dangerous spending patterns. It needed to happen years ago, and the fact that it didn't is on the hands of every legislator and president we've had in office over the last few decades, regardless of affiliation. I don't think I can come up with more than a small handful of bills that weren't promoted or passed or brought to the forefront specifically for the sake of political expediency. Sometimes those bills help the general population and sometimes they cause more harm over the long term...I think a fiscal bill geared towards cutting spending and curbing borrowing will help us long term, even if it causes short term pain (and a good, serious bill probably would). I actually think the Republicans got it wrong here and will suffer politically for holding the reigns on this. The media and the DNC have done a very good job of making the republicans look like ideologues trying to facilitate breaks and bonuses for big business while "punishing" the middle class...even though only one bill (and one that was never seriously considered) provided any sort of major incentive for business.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    For the record, I'm not referencing House v. Senate as a means of referencing Republicans v. Democrats. As I saw it, we had one chamber putting things together, asking for discussion, trying to get something done...and we had one chamber who pouted and acted like children, refusing to come to the table. They were trying to remain politically innocent and avoid having their names and faces put to the bill...at least that's my guess, and it's really the only explanation I can come up with that makes any sense...because they had no reason to be so unproductive and unwilling to get involved in any meaningful discussion. As much as the Senate made a political move by remaining inactive, the Houst made one by refusing to include any of the vague Senate demands on paper. In a sense yeah, they're both guilty...but the idea that republican refusal to compromise is the sole or primary reason that we had such a huge (albeit expected) delay and related expenditures is just wrong.
    I don't really see it that way. We had one chamber sitting on their thumbs waiting for the President to do their dirty work, while the other pretty much did it's own **** that it knew wasn't going to go anywhere. And apart from that, there wasn't much "discussion" except among Republicans themselves.

    As for the bolded: you know I'm not one of the ones saying that, but intransigence on the part of some of the conservative GOP ideologues was definitely part of it. There's enough blame to go around elsewhere, however.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    It is the fault of both Dems and GOP in both the senate and the house for playing partisan hackery and holding the country financially hostage just to score points for an upcoming election. Neither side really cares about the American peoe, only what they can get out of it.

    The whole lot should be thrown out on their asses.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have a group of people in elected positions of power in government who hate government and would like to see large parts of it destroyed or abolished.

    What more needs to be explained to anyone?
    True. The problem is that they've shown themselves to be unwilling to stand up and be the first one to throw the molatov cocktail into the works of the government. They talk a good game, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of them voted for the bill presented to the House last night.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I disagree. What matters isn't the size of the increase itself (or the length of time until the next increase), it's the size of the increase relative to the amount of cuts. The goal is pretty much for the cuts to exceed the increase. When Boehner said "I'm only going to raise the ceiling by 1 trillion, but my plan only has $900 billion worth of cuts" what does that mean? Why one trillion? If you raise the ceiling by only one trillion, another debt debacle will come up before the end of this year, and we have to go through this three-ring circus again. That only serves to create more uncertainty in already fragile economy, at this point (and, while I don't agree with this, there are cynics out there who even say that that move by Boehner was intentionally put in there in order to screw up the economy for the President). Why not just come up with an original bill that extends the debt ceiling by a lot, but also cuts a lot so we don't have to go through this bull**** again a mere 4 months from now?
    Because if we have the borrowing capacity available we'll find a way to spend until we reach the ceiling again. We can make tons of cuts today and increase the debt limit by $2.4 trillion or more...and what you'll see are new programs, plans, projects, and spending needs that will lead to us maxing out pretty quickly. That's why the plan SHOULD have included mandatory % decreases in spending / increases in revenue over time which would have led to a balanced budget, as well as a cap on how much we can borrow vs. how much we spend (i'm sorry, but almost 1/2 is way too damned high), with that ratio decreasing over time.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Why not just come up with an original bill that extends the debt ceiling by a lot, but also cuts a lot so we don't have to go through this bull**** again a mere 4 months from now?
    I dont know if you really dont know the answer or if youre just trolling but the dems wouldnt agree to that amount of cuts at all. Its a non starter in the senate if you cut as much as you increased the cap, thats what cut cap and balance was essentially about.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I don't deny that their actions are nothing if not politically motivated. But as I've said before, I really don't care why or who, as long as somebody starts focusing on our very dangerous spending patterns. It needed to happen years ago, and the fact that it didn't is on the hands of every legislator and president we've had in office over the last few decades, regardless of affiliation. I don't think I can come up with more than a small handful of bills that weren't promoted or passed or brought to the forefront specifically for the sake of political expediency. Sometimes those bills help the general population and sometimes they cause more harm over the long term...I think a fiscal bill geared towards cutting spending and curbing borrowing will help us long term, even if it causes short term pain (and a good, serious bill probably would). I actually think the Republicans got it wrong here and will suffer politically for holding the reigns on this. The media and the DNC have done a very good job of making the republicans look like ideologues trying to facilitate breaks and bonuses for big business while "punishing" the middle class...even though only one bill (and one that was never seriously considered) provided any sort of major incentive for business.
    You should care. What is the generally accepted method of getting a country through a recession and firmly into recovery? Spending and tax cuts. Why attack Obama then for doing what Reagan and Bush have done to get through tough economic times? Politics and the fact that they have never, not ever, tried to actually fix their spending. If the right thing had been done in the past, Obama's spending would be no big deal.

    We are still in rough economic times. Cutting spending now will only make this worse. The general consensus among economists except the most hardcore fringe elements is that the government cutting spending is going to cost jobs and reduce GDP growth, possibly enough to put us right back into recession. Timing does matter. You spend when times are bad, and you pay off that spending when times get good. For purely political reasons, republicans are forcing the reverse. They spent when times are good, and now expect Obama to cut when times are bad.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    And apart from that, there wasn't much "discussion" except among Republicans themselves.
    there was the biden group, the gang of 6, kent conrad's budget committee...

    there were the boehner-obama talks, there was the mcconnell-reid deal...

    the lift a full 50% of the democrats voted AGAINST yesterday in boehner's house might best be called the mcconell-obama plan

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Because if we have the borrowing capacity available we'll find a way to spend until we reach the ceiling again. We can make tons of cuts today and increase the debt limit by $2.4 trillion or more...and what you'll see are new programs, plans, projects, and spending needs that will lead to us maxing out pretty quickly. That's why the plan SHOULD have included mandatory % decreases in spending / increases in revenue over time which would have led to a balanced budget, as well as a cap on how much we can borrow vs. how much we spend (i'm sorry, but almost 1/2 is way too damned high), with that ratio decreasing over time.
    Admit I hadn't thought about that, good point. In any case, the new bill that's supposed to be passed today puts percentage caps on discretionary spending.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 08-02-11 at 01:03 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Considering the FAA has been unfunded for weeks now, and the inspectors and people employed there are working for free to keep America's skies safe and all because congress cant get their act together... then this whole debt ceiling bull**** is just one of many inactions by the US Congress.. They should not be paid at all until they actually do something that helps the American people and not their own pockets and "friends" pockets... the US Congress is an insult to the very idea of democracy.
    PeteEU

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