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Thread: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    He bailed out union contracts which are state responsibility. That isn't what the stimulus was supposed to do. It has been a failure as shown by the GDP numbers and the debt increase
    Unions are regulated by the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) -- not states. What Obama did was save the auto industry and upwards of a million American jobs. Union members are working Americans.[/QUOTE]

    That is your opinion, the taxpayer is going to lose billions on that deal and that isn't how the free market works. You continue to buy what you are told by this Adminstration and the results continue to disappoint and in fact are a disaster

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sadly, TARP was absolutely essential. If we had not done TARP, IMHO, we would be in a severe depression right now.
    More crystal ball predictions? Come on man, you can not say that absolute confidence. TARP was initially given to the banks, and how much of that money was released back into the economy? Very little from what we have been told. Then it was used to Buy GM and Chrysler for the unions....We got screwed on that one. Now instead of paying it back Obama has kept the money as a slush fund to pay off his supporters....Bush was wrong to enact it, and Obama was criminal to steal the money.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Unions are regulated by the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) -- not states. What Obama did was save the auto industry and upwards of a million American jobs. Union members are working Americans.
    That is your opinion, the taxpayer is going to lose billions on that deal and that isn't how the free market works. You continue to buy what you are told by this Adminstration and the results continue to disappoint and in fact are a disaster[/QUOTE]

    It is a fact that GM and Chrysler would have ceased operations without the bailout, thus putting hundreds of thousands out of work directly. It is also a fact that hundreds of thousands more workers for suppliers who rely on GM and Chrysler would have been put out of work.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That is your opinion, the taxpayer is going to lose billions on that deal and that isn't how the free market works. You continue to buy what you are told by this Adminstration and the results continue to disappoint and in fact are a disaster
    It is a fact that GM and Chrysler would have ceased operations without the bailout, thus putting hundreds of thousands out of work directly. It is also a fact that hundreds of thousands more workers for suppliers who rely on GM and Chrysler would have been put out of work.[/QUOTE]

    No, that is an opinion, you believe that had GM/Chrysler failed completely that there wouldn't have been someone to come in and take over the company. Hundreds of thousands out of work? We have over 24 million out of work or under employed today. Doubt that those GM/Chrysler workers would have been out of work long. Where is your concern for the 24 million unemployed or under employed now due to Obama policies.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It is a fact that GM and Chrysler would have ceased operations without the bailout, thus putting hundreds of thousands out of work directly. It is also a fact that hundreds of thousands more workers for suppliers who rely on GM and Chrysler would have been put out of work.
    Yep, and the American people would have seen the true cost of unions in this country. But I've got news for you, had that happened, and demand was still there for other American cars, another company would have risen to fill the demand...That is how the free market system works.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, and the American people would have seen the true cost of unions in this country. But I've got news for you, had that happened, and demand was still there for other American cars, another company would have risen to fill the demand...That is how the free market system works.

    j-mac
    Well it would have been how union busting works... and that apparently would make some here very very happy.
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    More crystal ball predictions? Come on man, you can not say that absolute confidence. TARP was initially given to the banks, and how much of that money was released back into the economy? Very little from what we have been told. Then it was used to Buy GM and Chrysler for the unions....We got screwed on that one. Now instead of paying it back Obama has kept the money as a slush fund to pay off his supporters....Bush was wrong to enact it, and Obama was criminal to steal the money.

    j-mac
    Yes, you are just stating the obvious when you talk about "crystal ball predictions." We can only guess what would have happened if things had been done differently. You do exactly the same thing when you criticize Obama.

    Most of the TARP money has already been repaid. If we hadn't passed TARP it is very likely that all of the major banks in this country would have failed. That, in turn, would have caused thousands of medium and small banks to fail. Most of the deposits in those banks are guaranteed by the FDIC, meaning that the government would have been on the hook anyway. For better or worse, businesses and the financial markets cannot function without a banking system. Thus, I can only conclude that it would have been an epic disaster if TARP hadn't been passed.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, that is an opinion, you believe that had GM/Chrysler failed completely that there wouldn't have been someone to come in and take over the company. Hundreds of thousands out of work? We have over 24 million out of work or under employed today. Doubt that those GM/Chrysler workers would have been out of work long. Where is your concern for the 24 million unemployed or under employed now due to Obama policies.
    It was very obvious that no one was going to purchase GM or Chrysler as a going concern. And it's purest fantasy to imagine that anyone would start up an enormous enterprise like an auto company at the height of a massive recession. How many new, American, large scale auto companies have been created in the last 75 years? Exactly zero.

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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Well it would have been how union busting works... and that apparently would make some here very very happy.
    Nonsense. So unions causing the companies that they bleed to fail under the weight of unsustainable union contracts would have some how been union busting? Wow, that is a magical world you live in hay.

    j-mac
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    Re: Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It was very obvious that no one was going to purchase GM or Chrysler as a going concern. And it's purest fantasy to imagine that anyone would start up an enormous enterprise like an auto company at the height of a massive recession. How many new, American, large scale auto companies have been created in the last 75 years? Exactly zero.
    how many have been squashed due to skirting the monopoly laws, and collusion? And how many does one country need?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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