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U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

Catawba said:
It did not cut benefits, it cut waste in the program. I thought that is what we wanted? I much prefer that to cutting benefits to seniors that the GOP has proposed.
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The rightwingers were against govt spending and waste before they were for it :lol:
 
cpwill said:
:lol: one would rather hope that they would be less so :)



really. is that why the poor in America are comparable to the middle class in Europe?
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Where do you come up with that statement? Sorry, but you do not see abject poverty in Europe as you see it here. Perhaps you meant to suggest that the middle class of America is comparable to the poor of Europe?
 
PzKfW IVe said:
There is if you want to cash in any of the $2.6T in SSTF IOUs.
The money to make good on those IOUs can only come from the general fund or borrowing; either will increase the deficit.
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Obviously you never took accounting.... sorry, but prior deficits were funded by funds from the social security trust fund. The creation of the liability to the social security trust fund is already accounted for in previous deficits. Paying back the social security trust fund is actually an act of paying down the debt. Should they have to borrow to pay down that debt, the just moves it from one liability account to another with no impact to the deficit. Paying back the SS trust fund does not impact the deficit.
 
sangha said:
And the US is no piker when it comes to tapping its' natural resources
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actually we are very stupid when it comes to not tapping our own natural resources. the entire west coast and most of the east is off-limits to drilling, we over regulate and delay to discourage development of what is open to drilling, and we aren't doing nearly enough to encourage fracking. The US has more oil in the Rocky Mountains alone than Saudi Arabia has.
 
upsideguy said:
Where do you come up with that statement? Sorry, but you do not see abject poverty in Europe as you see it here.
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clearly you haven't spent much time with (for example) the "youths" of Paris. we are freaking out now because of a 9% unemployment rate? old hat for much of Europe.

however, yes, our lower-income workers fair comparably to the middle class of Europe. The average poor person in America, for example, lives in housing that is the average housing size for France and Belgium.

Perhaps you meant to suggest that the middle class of America is comparable to the poor of Europe?
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nope, it's the other way round. that's what slower growth will getcha ;). though now we have chosen to adopt an oversize government with a high debt burden, and so the low-growth fools are us :(.
 
upsideguy said:
Obviously you never took accounting.... sorry, but prior deficits were funded by funds from the social security trust fund. The creation of the liability to the social security trust fund is already accounted for in previous deficits. Paying back the social security trust fund is actually an act of paying down the debt. Should they have to borrow to pay down that debt, the just moves it from one liability account to another with no impact to the deficit. Paying back the SS trust fund does not impact the deficit.
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sadly you are incorrect. as Social Security continues to run larger and larger deficits, the difference will have to flow from the General Fund; whether that is financed by cutting other spending or increased borrowing is immaterial.
 
sangha said:
That was a dishonest claim. I said it didn't cut benefits for seniors. If you think I said what you claim I said, the quote the post where I said that.
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according to the Medicare/Medicaid Actuaries, the actual implementation of the cuts for providers will result in massive quantities of providers either going out of business or ceasing to accept Medicare patients.

so, as long as you don't consider actually receiving healthcare to be a "benefit", then technically, you are correct. they will still get their Medicare card. It will just happen to be useless.
 
cpwill said:
actually we are very stupid when it comes to not tapping our own natural resources. the entire west coast and most of the east is off-limits to drilling, we over regulate and delay to discourage development of what is open to drilling, and we aren't doing nearly enough to encourage fracking. The US has more oil in the Rocky Mountains alone than Saudi Arabia has.
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Most of the oil in the Rocky Mountains is in the form of shale, which is reasonably expensive to extract. The lack of development in the Rocky Mountains is less about regulation and more about economics. As the price of oil rises, the development will commence.
 
Deuce said:
The point is that a 3% increase in tax rates doesn't turn us into socialists.
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and the next 3% won't either you will claim. And when another 3%-you will say the same thing

when its 98% you will say the same thing
 
cpwill said:
actually we are very stupid when it comes to not tapping our own natural resources. the entire west coast and most of the east is off-limits to drilling, we over regulate and delay to discourage development of what is open to drilling, and we aren't doing nearly enough to encourage fracking. The US has more oil in the Rocky Mountains alone than Saudi Arabia has.
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Nothing you said refutes the fact that we are one of the worlds largest extractors of natural resources. All you have argued is that we can extract even more.
 
cpwill said:
clearly you haven't spent much time with (for example) the "youths" of Paris. we are freaking out now because of a 9% unemployment rate? old hat for much of Europe.

however, yes, our lower-income workers fair comparably to the middle class of Europe. The average poor person in America, for example, lives in housing that is the average housing size for France and Belgium.
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You did nothing to refute the claim that there is less "abject poverty" in Europe than there is in the US, and the size of ones home says very little about the standard of living because SoL is calculated using a number of factors.


though now we have chosen to adopt an oversize government with a high debt burden, and so the low-growth fools are us :(.
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thanks to bush* and the republicans
 
cpwill said:
sadly you are incorrect. as Social Security continues to run larger and larger deficits, the difference will have to flow from the General Fund; whether that is financed by cutting other spending or increased borrowing is immaterial.
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No, any SS deficits, should they become longer term, can easily be eliminated by removing the FICA cap.
 
cpwill said:
according to the Medicare/Medicaid Actuaries, the actual implementation of the cuts for providers will result in massive quantities of providers either going out of business or ceasing to accept Medicare patients.

so, as long as you don't consider actually receiving healthcare to be a "benefit", then technically, you are correct. they will still get their Medicare card. It will just happen to be useless.
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There is no truth to what you said, which is why you can't back it up with any documentation
 
TurtleDude said:
and the next 3% won't either you will claim. And when another 3%-you will say the same thing

when its 98% you will say the same thing
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Your predictions of future tax increases would carry more weight if only your predictions of the past were not so far off.
 
upsideguy said:
Most of the oil in the Rocky Mountains is in the form of shale, which is reasonably expensive to extract. The lack of development in the Rocky Mountains is less about regulation and more about economics. As the price of oil rises, the development will commence.
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That is quite true. Another uncomfortable truth for whiny conservatives is that the price of oil is approximately tied to the health of the economy. When the economy was doing relatively well oil prices rose and conservatives complained that Obama was responsible for high oil prices. When the economy started to falter oil prices came down and conservatives complained that Obama was responsible for the faltering economy. A classic Catch-22. Heads it's Obama's fault, tails it's Obama's fault.
 
sangha said:
Nothing you said refutes the fact that we are one of the worlds largest extractors of natural resources. All you have argued is that we can extract even more.
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no question we are one of the largest extractors. the only other nations close do so to fuel our appetite.

so I find it quite ironic that every time we see a slow down in our consumption in the form of a recession, everyone thinks we need to put our differences aside and re-inflate the bubble to get our excessive consumption going again.
 
AdamT said:
That is quite true. Another uncomfortable truth for whiny conservatives is that the price of oil is approximately tied to the health of the economy. When the economy was doing relatively well oil prices rose and conservatives complained that Obama was responsible for high oil prices. When the economy started to falter oil prices came down and conservatives complained that Obama was responsible for the faltering economy. A classic Catch-22. Heads it's Obama's fault, tails it's Obama's fault.
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The economy hasn't gotten up to doing relatively well, since the Democrats took over. I don't just blame Obama, I blame the Dems in Congress, too.
 
apdst said:
The economy hasn't gotten up to doing relatively well, since the Democrats took over. I don't just blame Obama, I blame the Dems in Congress, too.
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As has been noted, the Democrats took over Congress under FY2007 when the economy was on the way up and deficits were on the way down. FY2008 2009 2010 all transpired while they were in power.

:shrug:
 
apdst said:
The economy hasn't gotten up to doing relatively well, since the Democrats took over. I don't just blame Obama, I blame the Dems in Congress, too.
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Certainly the economy was doing well when GDP growth was up over 3% -- relative to where it was when Obama took over.
 
PzKfW IVe said:
As has been noted, the Democrats took over Congress under FY2007 when the economy was on the way up and deficits were on the way down. FY2008 2009 2010 all transpired while they were in power.

:shrug:
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And as has been noted in response, the damage had already been done by the time Democrats took over Congress.
 
AdamT said:
Certainly the economy was doing well when GDP growth was up over 3% -- relative to where it was when Obama took over.
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And, where is it now?
 
upsideguy said:
you do not see abject poverty in Europe as you see it here
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in july a dept of energy study based on census data found that 98% of americans living below the poverty line have a tv, 81% a microwave, 78% air conditioning, 71% a vcr, 65% a second tv, 65% a dvd, 64% cable, 55% cellphone...

on the other hand, only 29% of americans below the poverty line have an xbox and 28% have a printer

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online
 
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