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Thread: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

  1. #81
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Not realisitic. There's plenty of defense spending tucked away in the budgets of depts other than the DoD
    Here, I know it seems rare for you to bother to debate rather than post one liners and pictures, but it may help for you to realize that just because you...an individual with little to no credibility or longevity on this forum to give anyone reason to just believe what you say as truthful and not hyper partisan BS...say something is true doesn't mean it is.

    Please, highlight what other locations defense spending is "tucked away in". More than that, I'm interested to see if its "tucked away" in an area that makes up more than 2% of national spending.

    Even if every single solitary dollar from every single solitary other budgetary location that makes up less than 2% of the budget was then added on top of the DOD budget it would still be less than total entitlements spending. Actually, even if you removed Social Security, it would still be lower than all the other entitlements combined.

    And that's using an entirely unrealistic and unreasonable assumption that 100% of the budget for Department of State, DHS, House and Urban Development, Commerce, Labor, Interior, the GSA, and everything else were ALL spent on Defense issues.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    SS has historically had a surplus. Over the years, I think it's something like $12T in surpluses
    Again, are you basing this off taxes? Again, lets see some links from repuatable sources backing this up. Again, the money from SS taxes is included in the revenue that is still leaving us with a $1.4 trillion defecit. So unless you're going to supply me with numbers so we can accurately take SS revenue out of total revenue as well as take SS spending out of total spending so we can get accurate percentages based on that, take your tired and useless argument and pound sand. Simply stating it is so doesn't make it so. I'm looking at total spending as a part of total revenue. Social Security is part of spending. Indeed, its the largest part of spending.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But there are a couple of problems with your statement. Most of the "people" that want to not only protect but also expand their "entitlements" arent the ones paying for them. They have no problem with raising taxes...in fact embrace it...because they know they will impact the other guys. Thats why the "everyone has to pay their fair share" is so dishonest.
    Which entitlements are you talking about? I am talking about the ones we all pay into and all benefit from... like SS.

    Again, we pay low tax rates... Nearly half of American households paid no federal income taxes but still paid there SS taxes, and a lot of right wing people even support a tax increase with the fair tax. It's true that giving people all these tax credits has spoiled people and they will be pissed to give them up, and all the politicians are scared to be the one to ask them to do it. But another issue is, a lot of the biggest tax credits like EIC is given to low income families, and that is afforded by the higher tax taxes the wealthier pay. If our nation becomes more prosperous and successful, and as the income gap decreases there will be more high income tax payers anyway. I am going to be paying higher taxes in the future, because I finished college and will only be making more and more money each year. I personally don't have a problem with that...

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Also, from what I'm seeing the surplus is closer to $2.4 trillion rather than $12 Trillion as you suggest. That's a rather huge gap in terms of numbers. Additioanlly, the CBO stated that this year we'd pay out more in Social Security then we'd pull in. Furthermore, you dishonestly wish to look at the past and act like that is some kidn of garaunteed trend while refusing to look at facts about the future. Namely that over the next twenty years we are set to almost double the amount of people partaking in Social Security benefits and that it'll increase from being about 5% of GDP to 6% (Link). So while in the past we've run some surplus's, in the future we'll be running deficits.

    So it appears your numbers are off, your premise is off, and your attempts at "debate" through one liners and pictures is off as well.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I said neither...I didnt bring up either...and if you dont think the Kennedy's were a corporation, you dont know much about history.

    But hey...as long as we all agree that there are just as many capitalist left leaning ****heads protecting their wealth as there are right...I guess we can all find common ground.
    You're right, it wasn't you who said corporations, so I edited the post, but not soon enough for you to quote it. My bad

    However, the discussion was about corporations, until you tried to change it to families.

    And no, the Kennedys' were not a corporation. They owned corps, but they weren't a corp. Saying so is sophistic.

    And corps are neither left nor right. They are economic entities designed to make a profit
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But there are a couple of problems with your statement. Most of the "people" that want to not only protect but also expand their "entitlements" arent the ones paying for them. They have no problem with raising taxes...in fact embrace it...because they know they will impact the other guys. Thats why the "everyone has to pay their fair share" is so dishonest.
    The majority who want to expand entitlements are the same majority who pays the majority of taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here, I know it seems rare for you to bother to debate rather than post one liners and pictures, but it may help for you to realize that just because you...an individual with little to no credibility or longevity on this forum to give anyone reason to just believe what you say as truthful and not hyper partisan BS...say something is true doesn't mean it is.

    Please, highlight what other locations defense spending is "tucked away in". More than that, I'm interested to see if its "tucked away" in an area that makes up more than 2% of national spending.

    Even if every single solitary dollar from every single solitary other budgetary location that makes up less than 2% of the budget was then added on top of the DOD budget it would still be less than total entitlements spending. Actually, even if you removed Social Security, it would still be lower than all the other entitlements combined.

    And that's using an entirely unrealistic and unreasonable assumption that 100% of the budget for Department of State, DHS, House and Urban Development, Commerce, Labor, Interior, the GSA, and everything else were ALL spent on Defense issues.
    So you have no argument besides attacking my credibility?

    You should have said so from the beginning.

    And the budgets of the other depts include a lot of entitlements for the wealthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Again, are you basing this off taxes? Again, lets see some links from repuatable sources backing this up. Again, the money from SS taxes is included in the revenue that is still leaving us with a $1.4 trillion defecit. So unless you're going to supply me with numbers so we can accurately take SS revenue out of total revenue as well as take SS spending out of total spending so we can get accurate percentages based on that, take your tired and useless argument and pound sand. Simply stating it is so doesn't make it so. I'm looking at total spending as a part of total revenue. Social Security is part of spending. Indeed, its the largest part of spending.
    The revenues collected by the govt for SS funding exceed the SS expenditures. This surplus is loaned to the govt for purposes of reducing the deficit.

    The reason why the budget has a deficit is because of ON-BUDGET spending, not SS which is off the budget.

    You can talk about total spending vs total revenue, but I am free to point out that SS reduces the deficit.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Also, from what I'm seeing the surplus is closer to $2.4 trillion rather than $12 Trillion as you suggest. That's a rather huge gap in terms of numbers. Additioanlly, the CBO stated that this year we'd pay out more in Social Security then we'd pull in. Furthermore, you dishonestly wish to look at the past and act like that is some kidn of garaunteed trend while refusing to look at facts about the future. Namely that over the next twenty years we are set to almost double the amount of people partaking in Social Security benefits and that it'll increase from being about 5% of GDP to 6% (Link). So while in the past we've run some surplus's, in the future we'll be running deficits.

    So it appears your numbers are off, your premise is off, and your attempts at "debate" through one liners and pictures is off as well.
    The reason why the SS deficit for this year is news is because SS almost always runs a surplus and has for decades. So your link confirms my claim that SS has historically run a surplus. And SS is projected to run surpluses for many years. The only way it shows a deficit is when the projections use a long-term growth rate so low that it has not happened in this country at anytime during our lifetimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #90
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Actually, I had many arguments. Its rather obvious based on your posts why you chose to ignore them.

    I had the argument that even if we believed your ridiculous comment, and even if we made dozens of other departments spend all their money on defense, that it STILL doesn't equal to what the cost of entitlements sans SS equal, let alone when you add social security into it. I had the argument that even if we did have a portion of every non-entitlement budget going towards defense spending it'd STILL be less than entitlements.

    And so your counter is to...bitch about the wealthy? What about my posts had ANYTHING to do with the wealthy. I know you wish to back peddle and attempt to play the "wealthy" line as if its a get out of free card or a Draw 4 in Uno. Its not. Especialy in a situation where I've not even talked about the wealthy. I'm talking about entitlements vs defense spending, not upper vs lower class, not wealthy vs poor.

    Entitlement spending, and defense spending, both need to be addressed and people need to get out of denail over it. Entitlement spending needs to be cut, yes cut from the "wealthy" and from the "poor" and from the "middle class" as well. It simply needs to be cut.

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