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Thread: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

  1. #161
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Based on the above I think you misunderstand the discussion.

    Minority rights and enumerated powers means there are limits as to what the federal government majority can rule over, in the first place.

    Is freedom so foreign to you that you can only envision two scenarios?
    A majority government ruling you, or a minority government ruling you?

    How about your government is supposed to allow you to rule yourself on most things? What are they teaching you in school????
    You seem to be a little confused. What I'm saying is that the majority of Americans are in favor of a strong military, Social Security, and Medicare/aid. Politicians are generally responsive to what wants of the majority -- that's how a democracy works. Therefore we have to raise enough revenue to pay for the government that most Americans want.

    Clear enough?

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What I'm saying is that the majority of Americans are in favor of a strong military, Social Security, and Medicare/aid. Politicians are generally responsive to what wants of the majority -- that's how a democracy works. Therefore we have to raise enough revenue to pay for the government that most Americans want.
    You're correct when you say that Americans want those expensive programs, but we also want low taxes. It's fair to say "we have to raise enough revenue to pay for the government that most Americans want", but it's equally fair to say that we need to cut spending to match the low tax rates that most Americans want.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    You're correct when you say that Americans want those expensive programs, but we also want low taxes. It's fair to say "we have to raise enough revenue to pay for the government that most Americans want", but it's equally fair to say that we need to cut spending to match the low tax rates that most Americans want.
    Aye, there's the rub.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I found this article in The Globe and Mail and had to share. I admit I smirk when I hear Americans complain about tax rates as I knew they pay less than most developed countries. In fact, tax rates in the US today are comparable to those of 1965! Having said that, there's no graph that shows which country gets more bang for their taxed bucks, but that is another point altogether.

    I'm interested in hearing feedback and whether this surprises you or not.




    U.S.: In state of denial over taxes? - The Globe and Mail


    The US Government contradicts your post.
    Revenue As Percent Of GDP in United States 1900-2010 - Federal State Local

    Secondly, is % GDP necessarily the appropriate stat? What about looking at who actually pays more, rather than a %? That makes more sense to me.

    Thirdly, saying that taxes are too high in the US is NOT the same as saying that US taxes are higher than in other countries. Therefore, this thread, like many threads, is a straw man.
    Last edited by mpg; 08-01-11 at 08:02 PM.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The point is that a 3% increase in tax rates doesn't turn us into socialists.
    3% on top of what we already have. Socialism begins in the minds of those who feel society owes them something.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it is you who is focuing on entitlements. It is you who is saying we MUST cut entitlements.

    There is no need. We can

    1) Grow the economy
    2) Remove the FICA cap
    3) Create a single payer UUHC health care system, and save 33% on our HC expenditures
    4) Raise taxes and eliminate corporate welfare

    That combo would go a long way towards solving our fiscal problem
    No, it would go a long way toward fulfilling your fiscal fantasies. And thank you for proving you are not an Independent, which I knew all along.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #167
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    3% on top of what we already have. Socialism begins in the minds of those who feel society owes them something.
    The minds of those who want their medicare and Social Security, and roads, and a big Defense Department, all without paying for it.

    An idea the Republicans have been pushing since Reagan.

    Democrats, on the other hand, will let the Republicans have the low taxes they want, as long as they don't have to cut spending. This was essentially Reagan's deal with Tip O'Neill -- cut taxes and let Rs spend exorbitant amounts Defense, and the Ds got to spend as much as they want on everything else.

    30 + years of big deficits, that we now have to pay for. Contrary to popular opinion, it's not all Obama's fault.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Does that include money for employee healthcare?
    No, it doesn't. Which means that corporate taxes will go up even more when Obamacare kicks in.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    First off, let's make this discussion adult and cease the name calling.

    As for your point, where exactly does it state that the US was never intended to be socialist? That is surprising to me since many of your programs (SS, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, etc.) are, no?
    Those programs were created by socialist politicos, not the founders.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Perhaps you need to consider that, in terms of their government, what 'most Americans want" isn't reasonable.

    Deficits are always a choice - you CHOOSE to run one by spending more than you have.
    Reasonable or not, these decisions are meant to be decided through the democratic process. And they were

    Our system of govt does not require outcomes that please you or anyone else. We get the govt we deserve. Your opinions about the matter are just that..opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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