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Thread: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

  1. #121
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I agree. It is abundantly clear that entitlement spending needs to be cut and military spending needs to be cut. Would you also agree that taxes need to be raised, or do you think we can solve this problem through cuts alone?
    I think entitlements need to be reformed, badly. I think we need to significantly reduce military spending as well. I think those two things, above all else, need to be first addressed and planned for. Trying to deal with the other 25% while ignoring the larger 75% is ridiculous.

    After an honest effort is being made for those, I'd be open for most other things. Possibly increasing taxes? Sure. I would get behind that if it at least raises it a bit on everyone, even if its raised more on the rich than others, but I would not support that burden being placed only on a single group of people. Ultimately, if I had my druthers, I would want to see a 1 or 2% sales tax placed on everything that isn't food or medication, in which that money would go DIRECTLY to an additional debt payment. This would allow us to actually begin to pay down the principle of our debt rather than continuing to just pay the interest, which would intern lower the interest payments in the long term and reduce spending.

    Along with that I'd want us looking into a number of other things. Removal of waste and redundancy in the government. Reform of the tax code to simplify it, thus reducing the cost of the entire tax structure. The removal or reduction of many subsidies, be it to oil, corn, art, or science. Foreign aid expenditures, etc. And I could go on.

    But I would not support either of those things...the reduction of discretionary type spending or raising taxes...until and honest effort has begun under both of those two larger sections of spending. Increasing taxes while letting the rest stay bloated is nothing but a recipe for continuing to be bloated and I don't think it would be healthy or very viable to raise the near 70% additional revenue we'd need to sustain this bloated government we have. If we raise taxes first all we're doing is giving the crack addicts on both sides the cash they need to get more of what they crave. Then somehow, stupidly, are expecting them to give up their crack. That doens't work. Additionally, I'm not in favor of pointless rinky dinky cuts like foreign aide that are nothing but a drop in a bucket and are simply a murmers show to hide the bigger issues.

    I'm for a whole host of ways to deal with our financial crisis. But I'm not for kicking the can down the road by looking at minor things while ignoring the big glaring issues that are there.

  2. #122
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, it relies on the fact that the trend of the past 30 years continues, that being of a relatively low birth rate that is mostly steady but trending lower.
    Not true, and I posted a link and a quote which proves you wrong. Again, you show that you have failed to read what I posted.

    No where directly, which is why I said you forgot to mention rather than said you mentioned the opposite. You simply ignored that bit of information because it didn't help what you were trying to imply, which was that SS would always not just pay for itself but run a surplus.
    If economic growth follows the pattern of last few decades, it will continue to run a surplus. And the elimination of the FICA cap would eliminate nearly any possibility of a deficit in SS. I posted links to this effect, which you seem to have ignored.

    Yes, you posted a DailyKOS analysis of a random econimist with no information at all as to how he got his numbers. I meanwhile actually posted a truly non-partisan source, the actual agency that overseas said surplus.
    You obviously didn't read the article or you would know that it wasn't a DailyKOS analysis.

    No, I'm assuming the next 10 years will follow what's been happening for the past 10 to 30 years. Which has been low birth rates, lowering death rates, and increasing life expectancy. You're banking on things happening contrary to long term trends because it suits your position.
    You're ignoring the economic growth projections that are used in those projections. I didn't question the population projections. You are ignoring the low projected growth rate issue I raised because you can't counter it. Your talk about population projections is just a distraction about an issue I haven't disputed.



    Really? I've made it a point not to go grab onto NRO or Heritage information, yet you're going to throw out a magazine focused on writing things specifically from a liberal perspective?
    Again you can't refute the facts, so you attack the source. More sohpistry
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #123
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I think if it was just the paid for programs we wouldnt have as much concern. SS still has a lot of folks that draw out of it money they have never paid in but thats probably one of the more secure forms of 'entitlement' and as such...its not so much an entitlement as it is a ridiculously low yield investment account. Medicare/Medicaid, Welfare, those are more the entitlement programs that keep everyone jumping. Ive read where states Medicaid costs are continuing to climb and are expected to be 30-40 % of their overall expenditures. Not healthy.
    Medicare and Mdicaid, as presently constituted do present a problem. The solution is a universal, single payer health care system. That could save us as much as 33% on our health care costs and we'd get better outcomes
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #124
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, I'm assuming the next 10 years will follow what's been happening for the past 10 to 30 years. Which has been low birth rates, lowering death rates, and increasing life expectancy. You're banking on things happening contrary to long term trends because it suits your position.
    You also seem to be banking on this economic malaise continuing indefinitely, along with the attendant low revenue and high spending on social services.

    Socia Security is a small problem relative to military spending, Medicare/aid, and too low tax rates.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Medicare and Mdicaid, as presently constituted do present a problem. The solution is a universal, single payer health care system. That could save us as much as 33% on our health care costs and we'd get better outcomes
    Its comical how quickly people can look at what we KNOW as a system that is bloated and full of abuse and think the salvation to the world is a bigger system more ripe for abuse.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Geeesh...I wasnt changing it to families...i was being a smartass. I LIKE pointing out to all the ideologues that bleat on about evil corporations that their liberal Gods are just as guilty of the **** they accuse evil capitalists of doing.
    No, not a smart ass. A diversion because you had no argument

    And the reason why they can avoid taxes like that is because their wealth came from corps which can more easily evade taxes. That's why liberals support higher corp taxes, which would prevent/reduce such tax avoidance by anyone, regardless of party affiliation.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, not a smart ass. A diversion because you had no argument

    And the reason why they can avoid taxes like that is because their wealth came from corps which can more easily evade taxes. That's why liberals support higher corp taxes, which would prevent/reduce such tax avoidance by anyone, regardless of party affiliation.
    An argument to WHAT...yet another idiotic rant about evil corporations? Tell it to Obama's buddies at GE.
    Liberals support higher taxes so they can keep tossing slop to their crippled and dependent pets. They know what 'the people' want.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The spending on TARP under Obama was authorized while bush* was president.
    Obama did not expand upon the Iraq War, which was supposed to last "weeks, not months or years". And he surged in Afghanistan because bush* fumbled the ball there. He extended the tax cuts at the insistence of republicans and spending on HSA, TSA, Medicare D, etc are the responsibility of bush* and republicans.
    TARP I, not TARP II, and if you want to play the hyper partisan game the spending on TARP was authorized under the Democratic Congress which is who controls spending. Obama didn't expand on Iraq, he drew down in line with Bush's time table. On the flip side he surged in Afghanistan and engaged in Libya. You can keep trying to make this into a partisan bitch fest, but you're doing it one sided. I made no comments in any way shape or form to the legitimacy, success, or necessity of the wars...simply that they occured, and that they were continued and/or expanded. I'm speaking about FACTS, what I just said is a FACT, what you're trying to focus on is opinion and partisan rhetoric. You're doing it in attempts to bait me into playing that game, and I'm not interested, I've dealt with hyper partisan hacks before...you're nothing new.

    it's a deficit that our economy can easily deal with and it doesn't require cutting every fed agency to 0.
    Irrelevant to the fact it was pointing out your idiotic statements regarding the deficit and the effects cuts to the military would have on it.

    And I never said the entire deficit is bush*'s fault. That is fiction
    No, you stated singularly that the reason for our deficit is "on budget" expenditures, not off budget, and proceeded to post up pictures focusing on "bush" tax cuts, tarp, and wars accounting for all the deficit. This is, of course, all fictional hyper partisan bull****. Cutting all "on budget" expenditures would still leave us with a deficit. Cutting all relics of the Bush era would still leave us with a deficit.

    No, I said a specific amount (ie $48 billion). Nice try
    Ah, so generic "billions" which could mean anything from $3 billion to $999 billion is something grant and to be applauded, something specific like $48 billion is "nothing" then.

    Please, indicate where the cut off in "billions" is for what's "nothing" and what's something to gloat about? I'm eager to be enlgihtened.

    More fictions. I have posted links to back up what I said.
    Yes, you've masterfuly posted biased sources that don't actually have the information about the things they're referencing all throughout this thread.

    Well, if someone on the internet says so, it must be true!!
    Your posts say it, not me.

    If you weren't so busy trying to win an internet debate, you would have read the article and realized the # came from a reputable, non-leftwing source.
    I did, it came from a random economist at Bloomberg who was speaking about a graph he had on a television show, and reported it with a typically hyper partisan left wing slant that is known for the Daily KOS while providing absolutely 0 information concerning how he came to that number, what that number meant, etc save for calling it a "projection". Meanwhile, I've posted not a projection but the actual, official, REAL numbers by the agency itself.

  9. #129
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You also seem to be banking on this economic malaise continuing indefinitely, along with the attendant low revenue and high spending on social services.

    Socia Security is a small problem relative to military spending, Medicare/aid, and too low tax rates.
    Of course he is. The projections used by the SSA and CBO are REQUIRED BY LAW to use an unrealistically low projection for economic growth. Zyphlin refuses to even read the info because it was posted on a "leftwing blog"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    An argument to WHAT...yet another idiotic rant about evil corporations? Tell it to Obama's buddies at GE.
    Liberals support higher taxes so they can keep tossing slop to their crippled and dependent pets. They know what 'the people' want.
    The argument that corps don't pay the top marginal rate for corporate taxes. Don't you even remember what we were discussing?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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