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Thread: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

  1. #101
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    SS, Medicare and Medicaide have unfunded liabilities over $100,000,000,000,000.00. Hate to break it to you sport, but there isn't enough MONEY in the world to fund what the American people "want" because some politicians promised them.
    What a partisan bull**** comment that has zero reality to economics and facts. How long in the future are you counting.. 100 years? Average lifespan or just saying everyone is gonna live to they are 100 years old? Why dont you throw out a larger number to make your point stick to your partisan base.. how about 900,000,000,000,000?
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  2. #102
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, it has been...in the past. However, projections show it doing quite the opposite in the future and this year is an example of that. However, not surprising, as you went on and on about the "surplus" of social security (grossly exaggerating it by 10 trillion dollars) you somehow forgot to mention that the most recent year actually is a deficit.
    The projection (and it's only one of two projections) depend on a 10 year growth rate so low that the US has not grown so slowly at any time during our lifetimes. And this deficit can be eliminated by getting rid of the FICA tax cap.



    Where did I say it didn't?

    It however destroys the notion that its a TWELVE Trillion dollar surplus, not to mention destroys the implications you attempt to make that suggest that somehow that surplus is something to be counted on in the future rather than a trend that is set to become extinct.
    I posted a link that shows I was wrong about the $12T surplus. It's $22T

    Again, show me where? My links showed that this year its projected to run a deficit, not a surplus. It also showed us set to almost double the amount of people getting pay outs. Birth rates since the 1980's have been significantly lower than those of the 50's-60's which will be hitting retirement, creating a situation where there are less people paying in and more people taking out. Indeed, we have about half as many kids born per 1,000 people now as we did in 1960. Indeed, 2010 was the lowest birth rate in a century. Meanwhile our life expentency is increasing and our death rate has decreased over the past decade.

    So we have more people going onto social security, they're living longer, they're dying less frequently, and we're had less babies born to have people paying into the system.

    You're banking off a trend that's occured over the past 20 to 30 years while ignoring the numerous changes in the variables that would play into it.
    You're banking on a long term trend that has not occurred in our lifetime. You are assuming that the next ten years will be like the Great Dpression.

    Incorrect, it showed a deficit THIS YEAR. Furthermore, the projections are using a long-term growth rate that is on par with what's been occuring over the past few decades which is that the numbers remain at a steady low number as compared to the years past.
    Not, the projection depends on growth below what we've experienced during our lifetimes

    There Is No Social Security Crisis

    But for some reason, the trustees are of the opinion that in the upcoming decades, the economy is going to grow at a far slower rate than it has. Although gross domestic product growth averaged 3.1 percent from 1966 to 2006, all three of the trustees’ projections assume GDP growth lower than that. Even the optimistic “low cost” projection assumes that GDP will average 3.1 percent only until 2017, after which it predicts that growth will slow, averaging 2.9 percent for the rest of the 75-year window they’re projecting. The “intermediate” projection assumes that economic growth will average 2.1 percent after 2017.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #103
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well: look ot them for what? The believe that if we just *raise* our taxes then we'd be better off?

    It's not how muc hwe tax - it's what we do with it, what we value as a society, what our goals are - and so many other things that matter.
    Of course, and nobody suggested otherwise. Nobody has ever argued "just raise taxes and America will be better off!"
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #104
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Since you have done such a bad job of predicting the past, I can't believe your predictions of the future
    It's not my predictions there bub.

    The Real Debt

    Here is what he said regarding the actual US debt:

    "Add together the unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security, and it comes to $99.2 trillion over the infinite horizon. Traditional Medicare composes about 69 percent, the new drug benefit roughly 17 percent and Social Security the remaining 14 percent."

    Interested readers will notice that the new prescription drug benefit is projected to be more fiscally crushing than all of Social Security.

    Mr. Fisher points out that this $99.2 trillion will be a bit of a burden to pay off:
    Our $100 Trillion National Debt by Bill Walker

    Feel free to do a little research yourself.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  5. #105
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The projection (and it's only one of two projections) depend on a 10 year growth rate so low that the US has not grown so slowly at any time during our lifetimes. And this deficit can be eliminated by getting rid of the FICA tax cap.



    Where did I say it didn't?



    I posted a link that shows I was wrong about the $12T surplus. It's $22T



    You're banking on a long term trend that has not occurred in our lifetime. You are assuming that the next ten years will be like the Great Dpression.



    Not, the projection depends on growth below what we've experienced during our lifetimes

    There Is No Social Security Crisis
    You article is from February 24, 2009. It's 2011, things change, welcome to reality.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #106
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Again, you are looking at only one side of the picture (ie spending) without looking at the total picture (ie revenues), which is sophistic. Even your own link implies that a SS deficit is unusual.
    Actually, I'm not. I'm looking at both sides. You can not actually get to talking about a deficit if you don't look at revenue. Without revenue, all you have is spending. To GET to the point of talking about a deficit you must take spending into account because it is the money left over between the amount of revenue brought in and the amount you spend that creates said deficit.

    I am looking at the total picture, and that total picture includes SS spending in total spending and SS revenue in total revenue.

    Ignoring the fact that military spending benefits corporations, while entitlements benefit the majority of americans will not strengthen your arguments. It is sophistry
    Irrelevant to the fact that running 1.4 Trillion Dollar deficits and continuing to balloon the debt benefits NO ONE in this country...not corporations, not the majority of americans, not anyone. You desperately wish to turn this into a class warfare argument with me, you're not going to. I've already stated, numerous times here and on this forum, that the military spending needs to be cut. Its one of the two big elephants in the room. Its a huge issue. And yet it is still less than half the size entitlement spending is.

    I could be your mirror image as a hyper partisan hack and counter your ridiculous "OMG THE CORPORATIONZ!!!!11!1eleventyone!" scream by pointing out that there is clear, indisputable, unquestionable responsability placed on the Federal Government to pay for a military. But I'm not doing that, because that's not what we're discussing. I'm not discussing what should and shouldn't get money. I'm discussing the fact that we can't afford to keep spending what we are spending regardless of the reasons for it.

    Would it be nice and wonderful and feel good and rainbows and unicorns if we could give every american free health care and a free house and $50,000 salaries for doing nothing? Absolutely. That doesn't mean we should or can do it though.

    And yet, the rightwing won't touch defense spending. It was the rightwing who were thrilled to throw money at the HSA, the TSA, and the MIC.
    Blah blah blah hyper partisan bull**** blah blah blah.

    Nothing to do with my argument.

    If you want to know what is causing the deficits, here ya go
    Wow, a blog site for "blue" arkansas. I'm sure that's a reputable source. Again, you mistake "posting pictures" for "debating". Give me the link to where those numbers are generated. Its absolutely right though, however its numbers are so large on the side that it doesn't show it. Your graph backs up what I said...that if you remove everything but entitlements we still run a deficit, albiet a small one.

    Here's the dishonesty here however. It shows all over those things equalling about 1.5 trillion dollars. Yep, that's correct. Here's what it doesn't show. That 2.1 trillion dollars goes to entitlements. Again, you cherry pick like the hyper partisan you are. The wars in Iraq, the Bush-Era Tax Cuts (though now the Bush AND Obama Era Tax Cuts) TARP, they do factor into the deficit. So does Social Security, Medicare, SCHIP, Unemployment, and all the other things we spend money on. Those things don't magically come out of some other pot of money that is other than the revenue the country generates.

  7. #107
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's not my predictions there bub.


    Our $100 Trillion National Debt by Bill Walker

    Feel free to do a little research yourself.
    You are cherry picking projections, which Walker has never predicted accurately

    There Is No Social Security Crisis
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What a partisan bull**** comment that has zero reality to economics and facts. How long in the future are you counting.. 100 years? Average lifespan or just saying everyone is gonna live to they are 100 years old? Why dont you throw out a larger number to make your point stick to your partisan base.. how about 900,000,000,000,000?
    Unfunded liability is such a meaningless phrase. I have to pay rent for the forseeable future, that means my unfunded liability for rent is (rent) * (arbitrary number of months)!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    The government added $5.3 trillion in new financial obligations in 2010, largely for retirement programs such as Medicare and Social Security . That brings to a record $61.6 trillion the total of financial promises not paid for.
    This gap between spending commitments and revenue last year equals more than one-third of the nation's gross domestic product.
    Medicare alone took on $1.8 trillion in new liabilities, more than the record deficit prompting heated debate between Congress and the White House over lifting the debt ceiling.
    U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  10. #110
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Unlike you, Z has a ton of credibility on this forum.
    And you're in the same category as Sangha, but you have been here longer...

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