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Thread: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

  1. #91
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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The revenues collected by the govt for SS funding exceed the SS expenditures. This surplus is loaned to the govt for purposes of reducing the deficit.
    And yet we still are running a 1.4T deficit this year with over half of spending going to entitlements, and with over 1/3rd of it going to entitlements other than Social Security.

    The reason why the budget has a deficit is because of ON-BUDGET spending, not SS which is off the budget.
    Absolutely incorrect. If we removed every single bit of off-budget, non mandatory spending....we'd still be running around a $43 billion dollar DEFICIT.

    You can talk about total spending vs total revenue, but I am free to point out that SS reduces the deficit.
    SOME years it reduces the deficit, and by an infantismal amount. For instance, the total surplus of SS over its entire existance is 2.4 trillion...only 1 trillion more than this years deficit ALONE. You can also make that argument while ignoring that the trend you are so leaning upon is set to shift over the next 20 years as SS starts to apply to far more individuals and we begin, as the CBO said would be the case this year, to run a deficit rather than a surplus with regards to SS.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, I had many arguments. Its rather obvious based on your posts why you chose to ignore them.

    I had the argument that even if we believed your ridiculous comment, and even if we made dozens of other departments spend all their money on defense, that it STILL doesn't equal to what the cost of entitlements sans SS equal, let alone when you add social security into it. I had the argument that even if we did have a portion of every non-entitlement budget going towards defense spending it'd STILL be less than entitlements.
    Again, you are looking at only one side of the picture (ie spending) without looking at the total picture (ie revenues), which is sophistic. Even your own link implies that a SS deficit is unusual.

    And so your counter is to...bitch about the wealthy? What about my posts had ANYTHING to do with the wealthy. I know you wish to back peddle and attempt to play the "wealthy" line as if its a get out of free card or a Draw 4 in Uno. Its not. Especialy in a situation where I've not even talked about the wealthy. I'm talking about entitlements vs defense spending, not upper vs lower class, not wealthy vs poor.
    Ignoring the fact that military spending benefits corporations, while entitlements benefit the majority of americans will not strengthen your arguments. It is sophistry

    Entitlement spending, and defense spending, both need to be addressed and people need to get out of denail over it. Entitlement spending needs to be cut, yes cut from the "wealthy" and from the "poor" and from the "middle class" as well. It simply needs to be cut.
    And yet, the rightwing won't touch defense spending. It was the rightwing who were thrilled to throw money at the HSA, the TSA, and the MIC.

    If you want to know what is causing the deficits, here ya go

    Last edited by sangha; 08-01-11 at 02:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So you have no argument besides attacking my credibility?

    You should have said so from the beginning.

    And the budgets of the other depts include a lot of entitlements for the wealthy.
    Unlike you, Z has a ton of credibility on this forum.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And yet we still are running a 1.4T deficit this year with over half of spending going to entitlements, and with over 1/3rd of it going to entitlements other than Social Security.
    Thanks to bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afhanistan, and spending programs passed under bush* by republicans





    Absolutely incorrect. If we removed every single bit of off-budget, non mandatory spending....we'd still be running around a $43 billion dollar DEFICIT.
    That's nothing.


    SOME years it reduces the deficit, and by an infantismal amount. For instance, the total surplus of SS over its entire existance is 2.4 trillion...only 1 trillion more than this years deficit ALONE. You can also make that argument while ignoring that the trend you are so leaning upon is set to shift over the next 20 years as SS starts to apply to far more individuals and we begin, as the CBO said would be the case this year, to run a deficit rather than a surplus with regards to SS.
    No, almost every year it reduces the budget by billions. And your surplus # does not include the interest the trust fund earns. More sophistry

    And I was wrong. It's not a $12T surplus

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/29/1000366/-$22-trillion-Social-Security-surplus-revealed-on-C-SPAN
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Bottom line: the American people very clearly want Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a strong defense, and we cannot pay for those programs unless we raise taxes to historical norms.
    SS, Medicare and Medicaide have unfunded liabilities over $100,000,000,000,000.00. Hate to break it to you sport, but there isn't enough MONEY in the world to fund what the American people "want" because some politicians promised them.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    SS, Medicare and Medicaide have unfunded liabilities over $100,000,000,000,000.00. Hate to break it to you sport, but there isn't enough MONEY in the world to fund what the American people "want" because some politicians promised them.
    Since you have done such a bad job of predicting the past, I can't believe your predictions of the future
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The reason why the SS deficit for this year is news is because SS almost always runs a surplus and has for decades.
    Yes, it has been...in the past. However, projections show it doing quite the opposite in the future and this year is an example of that. However, not surprising, as you went on and on about the "surplus" of social security (grossly exaggerating it by 10 trillion dollars) you somehow forgot to mention that the most recent year actually is a deficit.

    So your link confirms my claim that SS has historically run a surplus.
    Where did I say it didn't?

    It however destroys the notion that its a TWELVE Trillion dollar surplus, not to mention destroys the implications you attempt to make that suggest that somehow that surplus is something to be counted on in the future rather than a trend that is set to become extinct.

    And SS is projected to run surpluses for many years.
    Again, show me where? My links showed that this year its projected to run a deficit, not a surplus. It also showed us set to almost double the amount of people getting pay outs. Birth rates since the 1980's have been significantly lower than those of the 50's-60's which will be hitting retirement, creating a situation where there are less people paying in and more people taking out. Indeed, we have about half as many kids born per 1,000 people now as we did in 1960. Indeed, 2010 was the lowest birth rate in a century. Meanwhile our life expentency is increasing and our death rate has decreased over the past decade.

    So we have more people going onto social security, they're living longer, they're dying less frequently, and we're had less babies born to have people paying into the system.

    You're banking off a trend that's occured over the past 20 to 30 years while ignoring the numerous changes in the variables that would play into it.

    The only way it shows a deficit is when the projections use a long-term growth rate so low that it has not happened in this country at anytime during our lifetimes.
    Incorrect, it showed a deficit THIS YEAR. Furthermore, the projections are using a long-term growth rate that is on par with what's been occuring over the past few decades which is that the numbers remain at a steady low number as compared to the years past.

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Unlike you, Z has a ton of credibility on this forum.
    So? He is still not right on everything... he totally ignores the Bush tax cuts and the two unfunded wars Bush started. Both of these have had a massive impact on the deficit and the debt load we have today. All he is blaming is the usual suspects of the US right while ignoring the "favourites" of the US right.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    In all reality, you can't include SS which pays for itself (and other programs). It's more of a revenue stream than an actual cost.
    SS ran a Deficit this year, and is anticipating almost $600,000,000,000.00 over the coming decade. And that's WITH rosey economic improvement projections.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    SS has historically had a surplus. Over the years, I think it's something like $12T in surpluses
    CNSNews.com) – The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reports that Social Security will effectively run a $45-billion deficit in 2011 and continue to run deficits totaling $547 billion over the coming decade.
    The admission comes in the CBO’s semi-annual economic review that projects federal spending, debt, and economic growth. In the report, the CBO also examines the impact of projected economic performance on the trust fund that nominally funds Social Security.
    “Excluding interest, surpluses for Social Security become deficits of $45 billion in 2011 and $547 billion over the 2012–2021 period,” the CBO reported.
    CBO: Social Security to Run $45 Billion Deficit in 2011 | CNSnews.com

    $12,000,000,000,000.00 from where? Where DO you get your numbers from?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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