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Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

You still don't get it, so how about answering the question, what is it about the liberal ideology that creates such loyalty? There WAS a public debt surplus but it was the result of taking money from intergovt. holdings thus the total debt went up. you don't seem to understand total debt and what we pay debt service on. Does it matter if there is a public debt surplus when total debt rose as did the debt service your tax dollars helped fund?

You are trying to go so deep into this issue to find ANYTHING you can to convince yourself democrats are wrong, and you, along with conservatives are right. I dont have that problem. I can look at facts and draw conclusions based on whats real, and whats not. I am loyal to my party because I believe government. I believe government growth is the KEY to economic growth. Actually, I dont think we are spending enough money right now in washington. Even economists say you dont CUT government down to lower our debt, you spend MORE and increase government size. This is something the GOP is un-willing to accept. Hard REAL information from a credible source, kind of like Global Warming. The GOP might be able to trick some Americans into buying their B.S., but I know the truth. The GOP's goal is to destroy the lower and middle class and make Americans rely on large corporations to survive, and THAT my friend, is called DICTATORSHIP.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Check the Treasury Dept. Flyer, as that is where the real numbers exist and what we pay debt service on. You want badly to believe what Clinton and the media told you but the facs simply refute it.

Where did you post the Treasury numbers? I am not ignoring them.
 
You are trying to go so deep into this issue to find ANYTHING you can to convince yourself democrats are wrong, and you, along with conservatives are right. I dont have that problem. I can look at facts and draw conclusions based on whats real, and whats not. I am loyal to my party because I believe government. I believe government growth is the KEY to economic growth. Actually, I dont think we are spending enough money right now in washington. Even economists say you dont CUT government down to lower our debt, you spend MORE and increase government size. This is something the GOP is un-willing to accept. Hard REAL information from a credible source, kind of like Global Warming. The GOP might be able to trick some Americans into buying their B.S., but I know the truth. The GOP's goal is to destroy the lower and middle class and make Americans rely on large corporations to survive, and THAT my friend, is called DICTATORSHIP.

If you truly are as objective as you claim then explain the actual Treasury numbers to us and how it shows a deficit and rising debt? Bigger govt? Is that what you are learning in school? Govt. is the answer? Where is that liberal utopia that you want this country to become?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Where did you post the Treasury numbers? I am not ignoring them.

09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38

Or you can do it by day at the following

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
 
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This deal is being called a "down payment", it's hardly that. And call me jaded, but these triggers that are supposed to happen when / if the Congress or this committee cannot agree... my crystal ball says those triggers will quickly fade away and be ignored or removed entirely. This debate and fight will happen all again. The ONLY thing that was positive in this entire sham of a display by government, is that the tea party has now forced and framed this discussion in Washington and has forced everyone to listen. This has also proven that the tea party is no astro turf - and that they at least as a vast minority, have the ability and the support to push harder for conservative ideals than anyone ever could have imagined a year or two ago. IF there is ever to be a change in Washington to fight the status quo of a John McCain or a Harry Reid, the tea party is it. At least right now.
 
If you truly are as objective as you claim then explain the actual Treasury numbers to us and how it shows a deficit and rising debt? Bigger govt? Is that what you are learning in school? Govt. is the answer? Where is that liberal utopia that you want this country to become?

I am not basing my decisions of anything in school, I dont need school to teach me whats right and whats wrong. I base my decisions on FACTS and CREDIBLE sources. I dont let extreme right-wing talk radio shows influence my decisions, and I dont believe letting poor families suffer because they "chose to be poor" is a humane cause to support. This country was founded on priciples to protect its citizens from these large corporations, including insurance companies, that the Republican party is out to support. The more you make people worry less about god given rights like food, medical care, and education, the more money these people are going to spend, which in return will create demand and create a path to quick economic recovery. The only way we can reach that goal is if Americans are willing to make some hard choices. The rich, the ones who created this mess in the first place, are not going to give up a dime, and thats just something I have come to accept. Republicans are more than willing to balance this budget out on the backs of the poor and ill. The ONLY way things will change is if Americans can understand the GOP's influence must be greatly reduced in washington for good, well, or atleast until they can reform their beliefs to actually serve the PEOPLE, not their employees like G.E. and big oil companies. God bless America, I am done explaining myself here.
 
Any thread, like this one, that has devolved into a 'My side is better than your side" is nothing but a waste of time. Neither side is 100% right and neither side is 100% wrong. Neither side gives a damn about the average American. What we have is a very badly broken two party system.

Not to say that we have any real alternative.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The debt increased from intergovernmental holdings. I think that is the problem here, we are arguing two different yet similar things. Intergovernmental holdings don't effect the economy like public debt and don't necessarily need to be paid back (for example reforming SS would greatly reduce the intergovernmental holdings).

Either way Clinton did a better job of any other modern president of limiting the budget.
 
I am not basing my decisions of anything in school, I dont need school to teach me whats right and whats wrong. I base my decisions on FACTS and CREDIBLE sources. I dont let extreme right-wing talk radio shows influence my decisions, and I dont believe letting poor families suffer because they "chose to be poor" is a humane cause to support. This country was founded on priciples to protect its citizens from these large corporations, including insurance companies, that the Republican party is out to support. The more you make people worry less about god given rights like food, medical care, and education, the more money these people are going to spend, which in return will create demand and create a path to quick economic recovery. The only way we can reach that goal is if Americans are willing to make some hard choices. The rich, the ones who created this mess in the first place, are not going to give up a dime, and thats just something I have come to accept. Republicans are more than willing to balance this budget out on the backs of the poor and ill. The ONLY way things will change is if Americans can understand the GOP's influence must be greatly reduced in washington for good, well, or atleast until they can reform their beliefs to actually serve the PEOPLE, not their employees like G.E. and big oil companies. God bless America, I am done explaining myself here.

Yeah, I can see your credible sources that ignore actual data. I see a lot of misinformation in your posts because obviously you get your information from partisan sites or sites that only tell half the story(polifact) Still waiting to see that surplus you claim Clinton had and show it with actual numbers. If you are wrong on that what makes you think you aren't wrong on your other issues? This country wasn't built on the principles you support and I guess it is easier blaming a big company that actually employes people that pays taxes than it is holding your elected Representatives accountable for creating a 14.4 trillion dollar debt. Millions of people are employed by those evil big companies and those people live in your community, pay taxes, and contribute to charities. Keep discounting that.
 
Any thread, like this one, that has devolved into a 'My side is better than your side" is nothing but a waste of time. Neither side is 100% right and neither side is 100% wrong. Neither side gives a damn about the average American. What we have is a very badly broken two party system.

Not to say that we have any real alternative.

The Democratic party STANDS for giving a damn about the average American.... Our sole principles are founded on medicare and social security along with government programs to assit poverty in a broad range of areas. I am not saying our party is better then the GOP, I am saying our principles serve the people instead of the wealthy and large corporations.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I'm upset that there are no impacting tax increases happening, especially on the corporate sector. We just practically bailed out the entire corporate economy and banking sector on Wall Street, and now the public has to face austerity for it. Why doesn't big business have to face any austerity?

I'm glad the debt ceiling was raised but I don't think enough was done to really target the source of this problem.

Yeah, especially businesses like General Electric who play ball with Obama - such thieving, no tax paying corporate entities should pay up! Actually, I am against corporate loopholes, especially when they provide zero good to the country. Some examples: GE (repeated since they are the worst offender), most government subsidized green "renewable" energy sources (wind turbines, the greatest offender here), corn growing subsidized for ethanol production (another government farce that makes food prices go up and gas mileage go down), General Motors (building mediocre vehicles and making unions richer on the backs of working Americans)... just to name a few!

But, of course, let's increase taxes on small businesses, working middle class Americans, and perhaps blossoming businessmen millionaires who might employ many... cause that warped strategy works so damned well!
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The debt increased from intergovernmental holdings. I think that is the problem here, we are arguing to different yet similar things. Intergovernmental holdings don't effect the economy like public debt and don't necessarily need to be paid back (for example reforming SS would greatly reduce the intergovernmental holdings).

Either way Clinton did a better job of any other modern president of limiting the budget.

Intergovt. holdings do affect the debt and deficit and will affect the economy since that is where SS resides. There are trillions in IOU's there that have to be funded thus the money you contributed to SS has already been spent. Debt service is paid on the total debt and comes out of the tax dollars.

Clinton lost the Congress in 1994 and had a GOP Congress that submitted budgets to him lower than he wanted but he signed them. Clinton had a GOP Congress from 1995 until the end of his term.
 
The Democratic party STANDS for giving a damn about the average American.... Our sole principles are founded on medicare and social security along with government programs to assit poverty in a broad range of areas. I am not saying our party is better then the GOP, I am saying our principles serve the people instead of the wealthy and large corporations.

Bull****. I refuse to drink your koolaid.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Financial crisis? The left in this thread and forum are claiming "country destroyed". I woulda been watching chaos on CNN. Cats and dogs living together... Sure. Bunch of drama queens. If a new season of Queer Eye and Dick Loves Jane don't start soon, we're gonna have to suffer this with every decision in congress.

In the age of terrorism, "they're gonna make you eat dog food" has become "they're gonna completely destroy the country and we will all cease to exist". As a society, we've gone to 11. It's like if pundits are not calling each other Nazis and terrorists, they're not even trying.

I can't wait to find out who "saved us at the last moment" like a fireman running into a burning building. That oughta be a hoot.

The worst part is that liberals will demand free can openers.
 
Yeah, I can see your credible sources that ignore actual data. I see a lot of misinformation in your posts because obviously you get your information from partisan sites or sites that only tell half the story(polifact) Still waiting to see that surplus you claim Clinton had and show it with actual numbers. If you are wrong on that what makes you think you aren't wrong on your other issues? This country wasn't built on the principles you support and I guess it is easier blaming a big company that actually employes people that pays taxes than it is holding your elected Representatives accountable for creating a 14.4 trillion dollar debt. Millions of people are employed by those evil big companies and those people live in your community, pay taxes, and contribute to charities. Keep discounting that.

Those "great corporations" you are talking about dont give a damn about anyone, any community, or any THING. Their sole purpose is to generage profit and make themselves wealthy. If they cared so much about our citizens and communities they wouldnt be moving their factories and jobs overseas.... I mean.... Why would they do such a thing with those great big Bush Tax cuts they are getting to create jobs? I mean.... they are the job creators... a must be given as many loopholes as possible to generate billions of dollars and give nothing in return.

I am wrong on this? You sound a little upset.... is the truth hard to accept? These corporations could care less about me or YOU, so quit defending them. If you love them so much, give them money.
 
The Democratic party STANDS for giving a damn about the average American.... Our sole principles are founded on medicare and social security along with government programs to assit poverty in a broad range of areas. I am not saying our party is better then the GOP, I am saying our principles serve the people instead of the wealthy and large corporations.

This has to be an act, right? No one can possible believe that our principles were founded on medicare and SS for those were never implemented until the 40's. You are providing entertainment today.
 
This has to be an act, right? No one can possible believe that our principles were founded on medicare and SS for those were never implemented until the 40's. You are providing entertainment today.

U mad bro? By "our" principles I am referring to liberal principles. Not American Principles. Democrats stand to defend people, Conservatives stand to defend their employees, large corporations and God. What I dont understand is why a good "christian" conservative would be willing to let people suffer, and balance a budget on the backs of the poor. That to me sounds a little "un-christian". We should hold a national prayer day lead by rick perry.
 
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Those "great corporations" you are talking about dont give a damn about anyone, any community, or any THING. Their sole purpose is to generage profit and make themselves wealthy. If they cared so much about our citizens and communities they wouldnt be moving their factories and jobs overseas.... I mean.... Why would they do such a thing with those great big Bush Tax cuts they are getting to create jobs? I mean.... they are the job creators... a must be given as many loopholes as possible to generate billions of dollars and give nothing in return.

I am wrong on this? You sound a little upset.... is the truth hard to accept? These corporations could care less about me or YOU, so quit defending them. If you love them so much, give them money.

Demonizing business is what liberals do, all to retain power. the liberal elite love having people like you and are laughing their asses off at you as they continue to make you look foolish.
 
The Democratic party STANDS for giving a damn about the average American....
The problem with that is the Democratic party only does that during election years or to secure votes for election years. They don't give a damn about American's, they give a damn about themselves and their power base... same as every other politician who's ever lived. Claiming some higher purpose fighting for the common man out of the goodness of the Democratic Party's heart is comic genius.
 
Just like conservatives are laughing at people like yourself, as you pay for their 10th car, their private jets, and their weekend get-aways to the private islands in the pacific.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Frustrating to watch our bureaucrats at "work." Looking at this deal initially doesn't do anything to lower the debt and in fact increases it as the baseline is the starting point with every budget and the baseline goes up every year. Right now the baseline budget is 3.7 trillion dollars, a record budget. Income is about 2.4 trillion so we have a 1.3 trillion shortfall and Congress is going to cut what from the budget? 3.4 trillion over 10 years is 340 billion per year so instead of a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit we have a 1 trillion dollar deficit so where are the cuts?

Best plan would have been to go back to 2008 spending and start the cuts there, IMO

lol.......we need to raise taxes, td. no way around it. right now, we are asking EVERYBODY but the wealthy to make sacrifices. it's bull****. i am looking for a third party, and it certainly WON'T be the juvenile tea party.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38

Or you can do it by day at the following

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

These are the same numbers that conservatives always trot out to try and prove that Clinton didn't run a surplus. They want to subtract intergovernmental holdings to reach that result. What they DON'T want to do, however, is subtract intergovernmental holdings for any other purpose. In other words, they will carve out IH when talking about Clinton, but turn right around and say that Bush's deficits weren't THAT bad -- and NOT carve out IH to make them look less horrendous. :lol::lol::lol:
 
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