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Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Jetboogieman said:
I would argue that at this moment, the debt ceiling just needs to be raised, no argument, no contest. To avoid economic collapse anyway and to keep your credit score unaffected.

However, I would argue that once this crisis is averted, congress needs to get to work on a more solid, and bigger plan that includes ways to cap spending and lower it. But after this, everyone will have just kicked the can down the road so I won't expect it'll be done.
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If the process that has been followed with regards to tying deficit reduction to lifting the debt ceiling had not been followed and the debt ceiling had been raised without deficit reduction, spending would have continued and the debt ceiling would need to be lifted again and again and again. That makes no sense.
 
Re: U.S. leaders strike debt deal to avoid default

Taylor said:
If that 2.4 Trillion figure includes Reid's "winding down of the wars" that were going to be wound down anyway... this feels like much ado about nothing.
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Oh wait...
According to the president, the deal means an immediate cut of $1 trillion in government spending over a 10-year period accompanied by a $900 billion increase in the debt ceiling. That will be followed by the creation of the committee to come up with additional cuts worth at least $1.5 trillion. The debt ceiling will be raised by $1.5 trillion if the committee recommendations are approved by the end of the year.
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Congressional Leaders to Pitch Debt-Reduction Compromise to Caucuses - FoxNews.com

Wow, "immediate cuts" that take 10-years to work. The committee idea is not as bad as I thought - still has to get passed by congress, and if it doesn't, $1.5 trilliion in "cuts" automatically take place. But the devil is in the details, so really need to know what's getting "cut" (i.e. increased at a slower rate).
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Flyersfan314 said:
I'm surprised the Tea Party made this deal. Its not cutting much. I wonder what the political effect will be? I'm pretty sure of the economic ones.
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Did they? Don't they still have to vote?
 
My initial thought on the agreement is that it is modest on the fiscal consolidation side (about $1 trillion in reduced spending with the rest to be determined later via a Committee or an automatic spending reductions formula). There are no mechanisms that actually target deficits (whether in absolute dollar terms or relative ones as a share of GDP), even as such mechanisms might bolster credibility. This agreement, while weak on the fiscal consolidation side, was necessary to prevent the onset of a self-inflicted crisis and it should be approved by the Congress. However, the work toward a credible fiscal consolidation program remains to be pursued in the future and probably won't commence until at least after the 2012 elections. The bottom line is that an immediate avoidable crisis was averted, but the nation remains on a fiscally unsustainable trajectory for the medium-term and beyond. The small downpayment on fiscal consolidation has not fundamentally changed that trajectory.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Taylor said:
Did they? Don't they still have to vote?
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Eric Cantor and the Tea Party were involved in this deal. No they didn't vote on this but they made the deal. I'm not saying they won't renege if the party leaders were sketchy with the details but all the reports I have read have said its gonna pass. Could I and they be wrong; sure.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

rocket88 said:
Jesus Chrysler, do we have to keep reminding you that "tea bagger" was a name the Tea Partiers adopted themselves? If you see a correlation between the Tea Party then and now, you are delusional.

The Founders were nothing if not good at compromise. The current crop of Tea Partiers think "compromise" should be added to the list of words you can't say on the radio.
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What was your opinion of the Original Tea Party members? Compromise today means giving into what a liberal wants and that is bs. Reagan and Bush 1 compromised and we see what happened. Cut the damn spending.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

TurtleDude said:
that is the place where there should be compromise

the GOP compromises by cutting some military spending
the Dems compromise by cutting social spending

in other words both sides give up areas where they buy votes

raising taxes has no relevance. anyone who supports raising taxes BEFORE the government can prove it can cut has way too much faith those clowns in DC
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Ummm.... the Clinton Administration? Clinton completely reformed tax code, which in result made higher income individuals and families... I believe around the $200,000 yearly income pay more taxes, which in result created MORE jobs and paid off MOST of our bills. Regean and Bush completely tanked our economy before clinton, both of them using the the cuts for the rich ideaology and look what happened when they left office. Once again a democrat had to correct the Republican parties horrific leadership and debt management. Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy, which in return created a massive ammount of jobs, and left the country with around a 300 billion dollar surplus when his presidency ended.

Now, because Republicans know Obama wants to do the same thing, they all signed an anti-tax pledge which prevents the idea of higher taxes from even being discussed. This is an example of the GOP's ethic, hold the country hostage to get what we want. This whole debt ceiling debate was really just rediculous. Raising the debt ceiling does not give the government more money to spend. Raising the debt ceiling assures the world America will pay for its prior financial commitments, and thats all. To me this is like buying a car, and telling the bank you will not pay your car payment until you have assurance they will reduce the amount you owe on the car. If you were to say that to your bank, a repo-man would be at your door in a matter of 25 minutes, and the same applies to the government.

The idea that these crazy GOP front runners can compare raising the debt ceiling, or balancing the governments budget to managing a small families VISA card is the craziest crap I have heard in a decade. I can see how the average american could believe this, mainly the senior citizens, who are sadly completely un-aware this is a 100% different government they had 15 years ago. They dont understand the GOP and Democratic party will make any promise they can to gain political ground, or make it to the white house. They will believe anything you tell them, especially since the president is a black man.

Americans need to understand we CANNOT get out of this debt unless we spend more money. Cutting spending dramatically like this crazy Tea party and GOP want to do is the exact opposite of economists advice. I never hear them talking about THAT on Fox News. I have heard some GOP say economists are never right, or have no clue what they are talking about. I guess this could be true, if you were a complete moron and in complete denial of your parties intentions to derail the government.

A quick lesson on economics... the more you spend, the more you make. The less you spend, the less jobs and income you create. The more tax breaks you provide for the rich, the more the rich will NOT create jobs. The wealthy Americans are not the job creators, the middle class is. The economy grows by the middle and lower class buying things, which in return creates demand. This whole LIE the GOP throw at its party and un-educated Americans about tax breaks for the wealthy will in-return create jobs is complete B.S. These massive corporations have had tax breaks for almost a decade, and what are they doing? They are moving their jobs and offices overseas, which is in return making it even more impossible to create jobs for average Americans. They dont talk about THAT on Fox news.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

SypherAL said:
Ummm.... the Clinton Administration? Clinton completely reformed tax code, which in result made higher income individuals and families... I believe around the $200,000 yearly income pay more taxes, which in result created MORE jobs and paid off MOST of our bills. Regean and Bush completely tanked our economy before clinton, both of them using the the cuts for the rich ideaology and look what happened when they left office. Once again a democrat had to correct the Republican parties horrific leadership and debt management. Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy, which in return created a massive ammount of jobs, and left the country with around a 300 billion dollar surplus when his presidency ended.

Now, because Republicans know Obama wants to do the same thing, they all signed an anti-tax pledge which prevents the idea of higher taxes not even possible. This is an example of the GOP's ethic, hold the country hostage to get what we want. This whole debt ceiling debate was really just rediculous. Raising the debt ceiling does not give the government more money to spend. Raising the debt ceiling assures the world America will pay for its prior financial commitments, and thats all. To me this is like buying a car, and telling the bank you will not pay your car payment until you have assurance they will reduce the amount you owe on the car. If you were to say that to your bank, a repo-man would be at your door in a matter of 25 minutes, and the same applies to the government.

The idea that these crazy GOP front runners can compare raising the debt ceiling, or balancing the governments budget to managing a small families VISA card is the craziest crap I have heard in a decade. I can see how the average american could believe this, mainly the senior citizens, who are sadly completely un-aware this is a 100% different government they had 15 years ago. They dont understand the GOP and Democratic party will make any promise they can to gain political ground, or make it to the white house. They will believe anything you tell them, especially since the president is a black man.

Americans need to understand we CANNOT get out of this debt unless we spend more money. Cutting spending dramatically like this crazy Tea party and GOP want to do is the exact opposite of economists advice. I never hear them talking about THAT on Fox News. I have heard some GOP say economists are never right, or have no clue what they are talking about. I guess this could be true, if you were a complete moron and in complete denial of your parties intentions to derail the government.

A quick lesson on economics... the more you spend, the more you make. The less you spend, the less jobs and income you create. The more tax breaks you provide for the rich, the more the rich will NOT create jobs. The wealthy Americans are not the job creators, the middle class is. The economy grows by the middle and lower class buying things, which in return creates demand. This whole LIE the GOP throw at its party and un-educated Americans about tax breaks for the wealthy will in-return create jobs is complete B.S. These massive corporations have had tax breaks for almost a decade, and what are they doing? They are moving their jobs and offices overseas, which is in return making it even more impossible to create jobs for average Americans. They dont talk about THAT on Fox news.
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Here we go again, do you people ever research what you are told by the MSM. There was NO Clinton surplus, NONE, and yet this continues to be the liberal rhetorc. Debt increased by 1.3 trillion dollars during the Clinton years so tell us all how there can be an increase in the debt with any surplus?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Here we go again, do you people ever research what you are told by the MSM. There was NO Clinton surplus, NONE, and yet this continues to be the liberal rhetorc. Debt increased by 1.3 trillion dollars during the Clinton years so tell us all how there can be an increase in the debt with any surplus?
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It's a proven fact that there was a surplus when Clinton left office. I dont know where you are getting your information, but Fox news is not a reliable source for facts. Every conservative president in recent history has tanked our economy, but yet you still defend your conservative disaster of a party. What are your real support motives? are you afraid of hispanics? blacks? are you rich? There must be serious reasons outside of actual economic facts that you support the GOP.

There is nothing wrong with supporting the GOP, but I begin to question real motive after seeing the terroristic strategies the GOP uses these days. Recently polling shows around 79% of Americans disapprove of conservative leadership in congress. That means less than a quarter of Americans believe holding our government hostage to please a racist redneck movement from the south is a good thing. Are you part of this 21%?

Also, if the President was a Conservative, and was raising the debt ceiling today, would it be a problem with you? Would it be different this time then the other 17 times reagan did it, or the 7 other times George W. Bush did it? I really dont think so.... I think this is all over the fact the President is a black liberal.

The GOP was a respectable party a few years ago, but once again, when they lose the white house, you begin to see their core support show their true colors. I really dont think there would be ANY tea party movement if a conservative was elected President, even though that President would be doing the EXACT SAME THING Obama is right now. Obama is not even making hardcore liberal favored decisions. In the last year, most of his decisions are either right in the middle, or leaning towards Republican policies. This to me shows the only reason the Tea party exists is because the President is a Black Man and they are unwilling to accept that when they lay their head down at night to go to sleep.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
I wonder if you called the members of the Boston Tea Party, teabaggers? Any idea what they were protesting and what the Tea Party Movement is all about? The foundation of this country was built on those so called "tea baggers" which far too many liberals don't understand.
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Umm, there were no teabags in 1773. And please, these people are calling themselves teabaggers ...


teabaggerbutton.png



... besides, how do you not think of teabags when you see this ... ?


9b6d6ba9fdf20deb7ff45115ced6533d.jpg




:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

SypherAL said:
It's a proven fact that there was a surplus when Clinton left office. I dont know where you are getting your information, but Fox news is not a reliable source for facts. Every conservative president in recent history has tanked our economy, but yet you still defend your conservative disaster of a party. What are your real support motives? are you afraid of hispanics? blacks? are you rich? There must be serious reasons outside of actual economic facts that you support the GOP.
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No, it isn't a proven fact as the Treasury Dept is the checkbook of the U.S. and the Treasury Dept. shows NO budget surplus. There were deficits every year of the Clinton Administration and the debt went up. Suggest doing some research.

Please show me the surplus and stop buying what the media tells you. There are two parts of the debt, public debt and intergovt. holdings. Intergovt. holdings are SS and when you take money from SS and put it to reduce the public debt you don't eliminate the SS deficit.

09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Check my politifact post Conservative. 236B surplus.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Please, SypherAL, show us where this surplus existed under a president that drove up the debt every year and operated with a deficit every year he was in office.

Links? Proof? I mean, if it was so well known, you should be able to produce real evidence of it's existence.

There was never a surplus and the facts support that position. In fact, far from a $360 billion reduction in the national debt in FY1998-FY2000, there was an increase of $281 billion.

Notice that while the public debt went down in each of those four years, the intragovernmental holdings went up each year by a far greater amount--and, in turn, the total national debt (which is public debt + intragovernmental holdings) went up. Therein lies the discrepancy.
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Flyersfan314 said:
Check my politifact post Conservative. 236B surplus.
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Check the Treasury Dept. Flyer, as that is where the real numbers exist and what we pay debt service on. You want badly to believe what Clinton and the media told you but the facs simply refute it.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

dontworrybehappy said:
The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Please, SypherAL, show us where this surplus existed under a president that drove up the debt every year and operated with a deficit every year he was in office.

Links? Proof? I mean, if it was so well known, you should be able to produce real evidence of it's existence.
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Son of a... I just gave you all proof! Also the cite your using is equivalent to me using dialykos. I try not to attack the source but the cite admittedly has a conservative agenda. Thats fine but not a good source for fact checking.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Flyersfan314 said:
Son of a... I just gave you all proof! Also the cite your using is equivalent to me using dialykos. I try not to attack the source but the cite admittedly has a conservative agenda. Thats fine but not a good source for fact checking.
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Why do you buy Polifact and ignore the Treasury Numbers? Do you know that the debt is made up of public debt and intergovt. holdings? There can be a surplus in one and a deficit in the other that offsets that surplus but is ignored by far too many. Attack the Treasury numbers that I posted. If there was a surplus why did the debt go up each year of Clinton?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Look at all these Republicans shoot down facts when you present them. There is ALWAYS a conspiracy when a liberal is right, and a conservative is wrong. Just like Obamas birth certificate. This is fake, that is fake, hes not a real citizen, oh, this birth certificate is forged, I want to see written statements from the staff on duty... it NEVER ends. If you are a conservative and you still believe your party is not responsible for tanking this economy, you are either in complete denial or are in need a mental evaluation.

P.S.- The facts that were just presented to me are from a conservative biased site. I know this is the type of "real information" conservatives are in the habbit of getting, kind of like Fox News. Cry me a river.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

SypherAL said:
Look at all these Republicans shoot down facts when you present them. There is ALWAYS a conspiracy when a liberal is right, and a conservative is wrong. Just like Obamas birth certificate. This is fake, that is fake, hes not a real citizen, oh, this birth certificate is forged, I want to see written statements from the staff on duty... it NEVER ends. If you are a conservative and you still believe your party is not responsible for tanking this economy, you are either in complete denial or are in need a mental evaluation.
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The ****ing US treasury shows an increase in the ****ing debt every ****ing year that lying cheating bastard was in office. Where is the god damned surplus???

My cite shows the information from the US treasury website, what does yours show? That's right, you have none! :lamo
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

SypherAL said:
Look at all these Republicans shoot down facts when you present them. There is ALWAYS a conspiracy when a liberal is right, and a conservative is wrong. Just like Obamas birth certificate. This is fake, that is fake, hes not a real citizen, oh, this birth certificate is forged, I want to see written statements from the staff on duty... it NEVER ends. If you are a conservative and you still believe your party is not responsible for tanking this economy, you are either in complete denial or are in need a mental evaluation.
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What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty? Apparently actual Treasury numbers aren't fact to you. Says a lot about the liberal ideology.
 
If you guys are correct, why do I listen to your OWN GOP party admit this surplus? Why would this whole "conspiracy" not be exposed on the news stations?

Let me guess, you guys have convinced yourselves Clinton is responsible for our Debt crisis, not George W Bush? Who LIED about Weapons of Mass Destruction, to get us involved in a fake war so he could finish his daddys un-finished business. His insane Tax cuts, which in return made job growth DECLINE. His lack of ability to lead or accept the fact you have to have MONEY to pay back the debt you rack up. IF anything, Republicans are the ones who are irresponsible with money, I think we need to take away YOUR blank check.

Go to google and type "Clinton left office with surplus"

You will find thousands of website confirming this.

I'll start with this one.
Bloomberg.com: News
 
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SypherAL said:
If you guys are correct, why do I listen to your OWN GOP party admit this surplus? Why would this whole "conspiracy" not be exposed on the news stations?


Go to google and type "Clinton left office with surplus"

You will find thousands of website confirming this.

I'll start with this one.
Bloomberg.com: News
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You still don't get it, so how about answering the question, what is it about the liberal ideology that creates such loyalty? There WAS a public debt surplus but it was the result of taking money from intergovt. holdings thus the total debt went up. you don't seem to understand total debt and what we pay debt service on. Does it matter if there is a public debt surplus when total debt rose as did the debt service your tax dollars helped fund?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Flyersfan314 said:
How is the politifact part of the Clinton media?

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy00/pdf/budget.pdf
Check out the sexy graph on page 2

Also this
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/18xx/doc1836/0200mbr.pdf

I have just provided to government sources showing the budget surplus. There is nothing more I can do to prove it.

I can not find the FY200 budget on treasury.gov. If someone could post it I would appreciate it.
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What does the budget of the United States presented by the President have to do with the actual numbers at the end of the term? It is a blueprint but doesn't prove there was a surplus. The actual numbers show a different number, numbers that show an increase in the debt and debt service.
 
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