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Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Re: Obama: We have a deal

I would respond to this posting, but I would be banned from this site if I expressed anything relevant about the sanity of the poster, so I won't say anything.

Do you deny that their tactic was to threaten to destroy the country unless they got something they wanted? Or is it just that you like their goals, so you don't care about the tactics they used to achieve them?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The scary thing here is that the Republicans, in particular the teabaggers, learned that as long as they have enough votes to prevent something from passing, and if they have no moral qualms and the appearance of insanity required to make such a threat appear credibile, they can get whatever they want by threatening to destroy the country. They want school prayer? We better give it to them or else they might block an emergency response to the next big hurricane. They want to ban Islam? We better give it to them or else they might block the flu vaccines for the next potential epidemic. It's disgusting. We're all being held hostage by the stupidest, meanest, element of our society.

You are right on the money. Obama is now 0 for 2 in attempting to negotiate tax justice with the GOP. He will lose again in November. Three strikes.

The Republicans are simply proving the truism that in a fight - the one who is the absolute batcrap craziest is the odds on favorite to win. The GOP out negotiated Obama before the tea party nutjobs got there in january and they did it again here. This is a sad day for America.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

It actually does seem a little absurd that there was a debate about this "debt ceiling" thing at all. We should call it what it is. "Paying back money we already spent." None of this was about new spending, or anything about what we do in the future. It was about actually financing decisions we've made in the past and reaped the rewards from. This is making good on that "no money down until 2011" deal. We've been driving the car around for a while, and the collection agency has come knocking. The fact that republicans fought about it at all shows me that they're either unscrupulous or simply ignorant of how this actually works. The debate about taxes and social programs comes later.

This was literally a discussion about whether or not to skip out on the bill at the restaurant, in plain view of the wait staff, and then arrogantly posturing that doing so will toughen the place up... but claiming it'll still give us endless soup, salad, and breadsticks in the future.

Yes, there needs to be discussion about spending and taxation. We should waste less money on stupid crap like wars in the Middle East and oil company subsidies. And yes, we need to close tax loopholes and probably not increase the taxes on middle class families and small business owners. We should un-cut the taxes for the wealthiest. It's not really raising, it's just realizing that all these absurd cuts were absurd in the first place and tossing them in the pile with the rest of the bad ideas.

But the fact that, in the face of crisis, time and time again, republicans will hold the country hostage... It's like Boehner and his buddies think they're living inside of Mission Impossible and you can only diffuse the bomb when there's three seconds left and everyone is in sufficient danger of imminent disaster.

This whole debate was absurd and frankly frightening.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

You are right on the money. Obama is now 0 for 2 in attempting to negotiate tax justice with the GOP. He will lose again in November. Three strikes.

The Republicans are simply proving the truism that in a fight - the one who is the absolute batcrap craziest is the odds on favorite to win. The GOP out negotiated Obama before the tea party nutjobs got there in january and they did it again here. This is a sad day for America.

Kinda sad that they're employing the same tactics as a four year old by holding their breath until they (and we along with them) pass out. Sadder still that it's working.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Do you deny that their tactic was to threaten to destroy the country unless they got something they wanted? Or is it just that you like their goals, so you don't care about the tactics they used to achieve them?

Actually, the point of my comment did not have to do with whether or not you agreed or disagreed with anyone. It was how you chose to do it.

But, since you brought it up, I don't think you know what the various members of the GOP were thinking or wanting. One member may have thought x and another y, but you want to lump all together under your prejudiced opinion. I could say the same thing about Democrats, but I don't know what all of them wanted or were thinking. All I know is that I wanted to see the debt ceiling raised and I wanted to see real and significant cuts in expenditures. At this moment neither you nor I know what tomorrow brings. It may be that some GOP members vote against this bill. It may also be true that some Dems vote against it too. Are you going to denounce the Dems with the vitriol that you used here on some Republicans? And, would the Dems be wrong if they voted against it?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I'm actually a little disappointed. I was going to jump in and buy some discounted stock on Wednesday.

God, we need new parties in Washington. These Democrats and Republicans "look like a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob" - Patches O'Houlihan
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The scary thing here is that the Republicans, in particular the teabaggers, learned that as long as they have enough votes to prevent something from passing, and if they have no moral qualms and the appearance of insanity required to make such a threat appear credibile, they can get whatever they want by threatening to destroy the country. They want school prayer? We better give it to them or else they might block an emergency response to the next big hurricane. They want to ban Islam? We better give it to them or else they might block the flu vaccines for the next potential epidemic. It's disgusting. We're all being held hostage by the stupidest, meanest, element of our society.

I wonder if you called the members of the Boston Tea Party, teabaggers? Any idea what they were protesting and what the Tea Party Movement is all about? The foundation of this country was built on those so called "tea baggers" which far too many liberals don't understand.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I wonder if you called the members of the Boston Tea Party, teabaggers? Any idea what they were protesting and what the Tea Party Movement is all about? The foundation of this country was built on those so called "tea baggers" which far too many liberals don't understand.

Jesus Chrysler, do we have to keep reminding you that "tea bagger" was a name the Tea Partiers adopted themselves? If you see a correlation between the Tea Party then and now, you are delusional.

The Founders were nothing if not good at compromise. The current crop of Tea Partiers think "compromise" should be added to the list of words you can't say on the radio.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I wonder if you called the members of the Boston Tea Party, teabaggers? Any idea what they were protesting and what the Tea Party Movement is all about? The foundation of this country was built on those so called "tea baggers" which far too many liberals don't understand.

LOL! No, I called the people who were in Boston, rebels or American Patriots or Minutemen. I do know what the Boston Tea Party was about and I have an idea as to what many in the Tea Party movement believe. They are not monolithic and they don't even belong to the same organizations.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

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Damn liberals. Calling people tea-baggers....
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

All I know is that I wanted to see the debt ceiling raised and I wanted to see real and significant cuts in expenditures.

Ok. So you support the cuts that happened, but you oppose the tactice they used to get them?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Jesus Chrysler, do we have to keep reminding you that "tea bagger" was a name the Tea Partiers adopted themselves? If you see a correlation between the Tea Party then and now, you are delusional.

The Founders were nothing if not good at compromise. The current crop of Tea Partiers think "compromise" should be added to the list of words you can't say on the radio.

That was quite a compromise in Boston with the destruction of the tea.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

That was quite a compromise in Boston with the destruction of the tea.

Go back to history class and read the Constitution. It's full of compromises. Counting slaves at 3/5? Compromise. It's amazing how much of the Constitution you know nothing about, then lecture the rest of us about it.

So there's this "no compromise in the Constitution" coming from the same person who told me that America didn't change after the Civil War. Until you pass U.S. History, don't even start.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I wonder if you called the members of the Boston Tea Party, teabaggers? Any idea what they were protesting and what the Tea Party Movement is all about? The foundation of this country was built on those so called "tea baggers" which far too many liberals don't understand.

The Boston Tea Party arose because the colonists were upset about taxation without representation. Today, the teabaggers seem to want to force their views on the majority of Americans, who disagree with them, by any means possible. In that sense they are the polar opposite of the original Tea Partiers.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Go back to history class and read the Constitution. It's full of compromises. Counting slaves at 3/5? Compromise. It's amazing how much of the Constitution you know nothing about, then lecture the rest of us about it.

So there's this "no compromise in the Constitution" coming from the same person who told me that America didn't change after the Civil War. Until you pass U.S. History, don't even start.

The Constitutional debates are quite fascinating, actually. Lots of compromises happened. No side got everything they wanted.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The scary thing here is that the Republicans, in particular the teabaggers, learned that as long as they have enough votes to prevent something from passing, and if they have no moral qualms and the appearance of insanity required to make such a threat appear credibile, they can get whatever they want by threatening to destroy the country. They want school prayer? We better give it to them or else they might block an emergency response to the next big hurricane. They want to ban Islam? We better give it to them or else they might block the flu vaccines for the next potential epidemic. It's disgusting. We're all being held hostage by the stupidest, meanest, element of our society.
Sorry, I have to post this again.What you are also missing is an understanding of Tea Party supporters. I met with Tea Party individuals at a demonstration. Two older folks there were carrying signs that read “NO GOV HEALTH CARE”, but to me they looked old enough to be on Medicare. They were on Medicare. They explained to me that they didn’t want the government taking it over and messing with it.
Also, a Tea Party family was at the demonstration, father, mother and one 10 year old son; two more at home. My wife and I chatted with them. The father is a vet that started serving just after the Viet War ended. He was disposing of Agent Orange; which in our opinion may have been the source of his health problems. He had a heart attack about 6 months earlier. Went to the hospital where his wife works as a low level employee. What she said she did only pays low wages. They can’t afford the extra for family health insurance, she was the only one insured since that can’t be refused for more pay. His bill was about $90,000. Her wages were garnished by the hospital; it’s only a small garnishment so it will take a very long time to pay it off. Again, they were there with a Don’t Tread On Me flag and more.
Are these the Tea Party members you are thinking of? Or are there two kinds of Tea Partiers? What kinds are there?
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Ok. So you support the cuts that happened, but you oppose the tactice they used to get them?

I did not say that I support the cuts. I said I support significant and real cuts. As it appears to me tonight, these are neither significant nor real.

When you ask about the tactics used, I will answer you this way. The Dems offered three packages to get past this crisis. All three were dead in the Senate. I am adding the Ryan budget as one of the three because it would have had a major impact on these discussions had it passed in the Senate and been signed by the President.

There is a chasm a mile wide between the philosophies of the Dems and the GOP. This issue of debt was raised many times in the past and Clinton and a Republican Congress tackled the issue and brought some fiscal order to the system. Bush, partially due to September 11, ran up deficits fighting wars, but he also proposed programs that had nothing to do with September 11 and ballooned the budget. The 2008 housing bubble burst and it brought about a financial calamity. Bush and Obama along with the Dems in Congress tried to spend us out of this problem and it has failed. It has not gotten us out of the disaster we find ourselves in mired into ever ballooning debt.

Many Dems here have said that we should have just passed the Debt Ceiling as a clear bill. I disagree as did virtually all, if not all, Republicans. Passing a clear bill would have not stopped the spending. Congresses and the Presidents [present and future] need to be more fiscally responsible. That has been the message of the Republicans. The entitlements need reform and so does the tax code. I also believe that the defense budget could be cut and managed much better. Ryan tried to put together a budget that addressed many of these issues. His budget was not perfect, but instead of attempting to perfect it, he was villified, especially by President Obama. It is my belief that the President forced the GOP to stand firm against him and his policies and they did. You may not like it and you may not like the results, but that is how I view the events of this year. Remember, it was President Obama who proposed a budget that was not one of cutting expenditures. In his State of the Union, he virtually ignored the topic. He probably should not lecture people about being adult on topics. I think he has not proven himself in that category.

So, the GOP, not wanting to give a clear debt ceiling bill and remembering the agreements that the Dems had made with the GOP back in the Reagan and Bush Era about raising taxes and cutting spending where the Dems reneged, stuck to their guns and negotiated using hardball tactics. If it had been the Dems who had done that, you would be cheering them on, but instead, for one of the very few times in history, it was the GOP who held sway. What a refreshing difference.

The sad news is that the cuts do not appear to be significant or real. On this, I hope I am proven wrong tomorrow. We'll see.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Small cuts wrong areas. 2T over 10 years? About 500B a year but I'm betting thats on future spending, not enough to lower the deficit. Discretionary funds is the worst thing to cut. Mandatory spending needs to be reformed and defense cut and reformed. If you do that you don;t need to take healthcare away from hardworking Americans. Its all a bunch of BS.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Originally Posted by LesGovt

That was quite a compromise in Boston with the destruction of the tea.

Go back to history class and read the Constitution. It's full of compromises. Counting slaves at 3/5? Compromise. It's amazing how much of the Constitution you know nothing about, then lecture the rest of us about it.

So there's this "no compromise in the Constitution" coming from the same person who told me that America didn't change after the Civil War. Until you pass U.S. History, don't even start.

Where did I make any comment here about the Constitution? Do you just take a person's comment and run with it in any direction you wish? I was commenting about compromise and the Boston Tea Party, which is exactly what I said. And then you spout what you did above. Sheesh.

I am still awaiting your proof about your comments regarding the changes of our Constitution by the Civil War. You did not reply with anything. I'm patient. I will continue to wait; however, I fear that Hell will freeze over first.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

All that can be done at this point is holding off the inevitable financial and economic collapse of this country. No amount of cost cutting can save us now.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

A full 3 days before I predicted it would happen, too.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

All that can be done at this point is holding off the inevitable financial and economic collapse of this country. No amount of cost cutting can save us now.

It's really not that bad. This is a 100% GOP-manufactured crisis. We need reasonable entitlement reforms, military cuts, and we need to go back to historically average tax rates. Problem solved.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I haven't heard any details yet, but I'm betting its mostly budgetary tricks and hot air, a lot like the big "historic" spending cuts the Republicans kept bragging about earlier in the year. All this posturing and bickering and we still get business as usual in the end.
 
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