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Thread: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil
    We're all being held hostage by the stupidest, meanest, element of our society.
    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then
    Sorry, I have to post this again.What you are also missing is an understanding of Tea Party supporters. I met with Tea Party individuals at a demonstration. Two older folks there were carrying signs that read “NO GOV HEALTH CARE”, but to me they looked old enough to be on Medicare. They were on Medicare. They explained to me that they didn’t want the government taking it over and messing with it.
    Also, a Tea Party family was at the demonstration, father, mother and one 10 year old son; two more at home. My wife and I chatted with them. The father is a vet that started serving just after the Viet War ended. He was disposing of Agent Orange; which in our opinion may have been the source of his health problems. He had a heart attack about 6 months earlier. Went to the hospital where his wife works as a low level employee. What she said she did only pays low wages. They can’t afford the extra for family health insurance, she was the only one insured since that can’t be refused for more pay. His bill was about $90,000. Her wages were garnished by the hospital; it’s only a small garnishment so it will take a very long time to pay it off. Again, they were there with a Don’t Tread On Me flag and more.
    Are these the Tea Party members you are thinking of? Or are there two kinds of Tea Partiers? What kinds are there?
    Not speaking for teamosil here, but…yes, they appear to be exactly the first type Tea Baggers he was talking about. Sawing away at the tree branch you’re sitting on is a great definition for "terminally stupid"; thank you for affirming this point.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Befuddled_Stoner View Post
    Not speaking for teamosil here, but…yes, they appear to be exactly the first type Tea Baggers he was talking about. Sawing away at the tree branch you’re sitting on is a great definition for "terminally stupid"; thank you for affirming this point.
    So far your "argument" amounts to calling your opposition names, then calling them stupid.

    It might feel good when you're doing it, but as for real debate it seriously couldn't be more lacking.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's really not that bad. This is a 100% GOP-manufactured crisis. We need reasonable entitlement reforms, military cuts, and we need to go back to historically average tax rates. Problem solved.
    agreed - we do need to go back to historically average tax rates - roughly 18.5% of the economy.


    of course, the way to do that is to reduce the size of government......

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It actually does seem a little absurd that there was a debate about this "debt ceiling" thing at all. We should call it what it is. "Paying back money we already spent." None of this was about new spending, or anything about what we do in the future. It was about actually financing decisions we've made in the past and reaped the rewards from. This is making good on that "no money down until 2011" deal. We've been driving the car around for a while, and the collection agency has come knocking. The fact that republicans fought about it at all shows me that they're either unscrupulous or simply ignorant of how this actually works. The debate about taxes and social programs comes later.

    This was literally a discussion about whether or not to skip out on the bill at the restaurant, in plain view of the wait staff, and then arrogantly posturing that doing so will toughen the place up... but claiming it'll still give us endless soup, salad, and breadsticks in the future.
    I disagree, I think the debate is a good thing, because we are just so much in debt and we have to go from one direction to the other. It's not like paying the bills we already spent, because we don't have to spend the money. It's more like after accumulating a mountain of debt, you request a credit limit increase or you go out and try to get additional credit cards. The only money we have to spend it on is payments toward the interest on the debt, the rest is discretionary. And it's not like skipping on the bill, its more like buying new clothes and a car every month and even when you're completely in debt, not cutting back and continuing to buy new clothes and a car.

    I think it's good that at least we have a discussion about cutting the debt, but unfortunately it may just amount to only that, a discussion and not much significant action. This compromise deal is a first step, but I hope it won't just be discarded or reversed by a later Congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Yes, there needs to be discussion about spending and taxation. We should waste less money on stupid crap like wars in the Middle East and oil company subsidies. And yes, we need to close tax loopholes and probably not increase the taxes on middle class families and small business owners. We should un-cut the taxes for the wealthiest. It's not really raising, it's just realizing that all these absurd cuts were absurd in the first place and tossing them in the pile with the rest of the bad ideas.

    But the fact that, in the face of crisis, time and time again, republicans will hold the country hostage... It's like Boehner and his buddies think they're living inside of Mission Impossible and you can only diffuse the bomb when there's three seconds left and everyone is in sufficient danger of imminent disaster.

    This whole debate was absurd and frankly frightening.
    Unfortunately, eliminating wars and oil company subsidies won't solve the budget problem entirely. We have to address entitlements and discretionary spending as a whole too. All the Bush tax cuts should go, for everybody, but that won't entirely solve the problem as well, it will help though. Our interest payments are also like virtual subsidies to the rich and China as well.

    In the end, the GOP as ran by Boehner did cut a deal and were looking to make a deal, not including the Tea Party caucus, but other GOP did sign on to a deal. I believe just lifting the debt ceiling and rubber stamping it would be more damaging in the long run.

    Balancing the budget is not a complex or elusive idea. It's pretty simple, if you want new programs you raise taxes to pay for them or you cut spending in other areas. I'm getting tired or buy now pay later, or put this on the country's credit card, I only wish that our lawmakers would have gotten this concept too or will get this in the future.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    So far your "argument" amounts to calling your opposition names, then calling them stupid.

    It might feel good when you're doing it, but as for real debate it seriously couldn't be more lacking.
    Premises:
    1) The Tea Party stands for cutting government funded health care and against raising taxes
    2) These people are still alive and functional due to government funded health care
    3) These people are members of the tea party

    Conclusion:
    a) These people are egregiously ill informed as to the actually policies advocated by the tea party

    Corollary:
    a) The appellative “Tea Baggers,” taken initially by the Tea Party themselves in ignorance of the term’s derogatory connotations, is an unsubtle reminder that they have previously advocated positions without fully comprehending their larger ramifications.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Befuddled_Stoner View Post
    Premises:
    1) The Tea Party stands for cutting government funded health care and against raising taxes
    2) These people are still alive and functional due to government funded health care
    3) These people are members of the tea party

    Conclusion:
    a) These people are egregiously ill informed as to the actually policies advocated by the tea party

    Corollary:
    a) The appellative “Tea Baggers,” taken initially by the Tea Party themselves in ignorance of the term’s derogatory connotations, is an unsubtle reminder that they have previously advocated positions without fully comprehending their larger ramifications.
    The old "They vote against their own collective good" train of thought. Just quit fighting it and embrace Government control of your life! It will all be better!


    As for this "deal", all ti does is slow increased spending by a mere $100,000,000,000.00 a year, while adding $2,400,000,000,000.00 to the debt.

    Think about this Punt logic. They add 2.4x MORE debt, then they reduce spending by, over ten years. Does anyone really believe the "second stage" will really ever happen?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    I'm surprised the Tea Party made this deal. Its not cutting much. I wonder what the political effect will be? I'm pretty sure of the economic ones.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    So far your "argument" amounts to calling your opposition names, then calling them stupid.

    It might feel good when you're doing it, but as for real debate it seriously couldn't be more lacking.
    We're not arguing, "They're stupid, and therefore their position is wrong." We're arguing, "Their position is hilariously wrong, and therefore they're stupid."
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
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    U.S. leaders strike debt deal to avoid default

    Obama, congressional leaders strike debt deal to avoid default - latimes.com

    President Obama and congressional leaders announced a deal to resolve the months-long impasse over the federal debt ceiling, agreeing on a compromise that would aim to slice about $2.4 trillion from federal spending over the next 10 years.

    The final agreement, announced late Sunday, came after Republicans dropped their insistence on raising the $14.3-trillion debt ceiling in two stages and holding another debate at the end of this year. Obama dropped his demand that a deficit-reduction deal include at least some revenue increases — in effect deferring decisions about taxes until after the 2012 election.
    Seems they finally managed to come to a compromise. I still think this whole thing was mostly posturing on both sides, but I'm glad they were able to work something out.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The old "They vote against their own collective good" train of thought. Just quit fighting it and embrace Government control of your life! It will all be better!


    As for this "deal", all ti does is slow increased spending by a mere $100,000,000,000.00 a year, while adding $2,400,000,000,000.00 to the debt.

    Think about this Punt logic. They add 2.4x MORE debt, then they reduce spending by, over ten years. Does anyone really believe the "second stage" will really ever happen?
    Of course it won't. Cutting programs is politically popular right now, but in a couple of years people will be feeling the crunch, and then they'll demand more government services and it'll go right back up. In the meantime, the massive pipeline to the corporations will continue flowing unabated. After all, we can't touch the important spending.
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