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Thread: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Go back to history class and read the Constitution. It's full of compromises. Counting slaves at 3/5? Compromise. It's amazing how much of the Constitution you know nothing about, then lecture the rest of us about it.

    So there's this "no compromise in the Constitution" coming from the same person who told me that America didn't change after the Civil War. Until you pass U.S. History, don't even start.
    The Constitutional debates are quite fascinating, actually. Lots of compromises happened. No side got everything they wanted.
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The scary thing here is that the Republicans, in particular the teabaggers, learned that as long as they have enough votes to prevent something from passing, and if they have no moral qualms and the appearance of insanity required to make such a threat appear credibile, they can get whatever they want by threatening to destroy the country. They want school prayer? We better give it to them or else they might block an emergency response to the next big hurricane. They want to ban Islam? We better give it to them or else they might block the flu vaccines for the next potential epidemic. It's disgusting. We're all being held hostage by the stupidest, meanest, element of our society.
    Sorry, I have to post this again.What you are also missing is an understanding of Tea Party supporters. I met with Tea Party individuals at a demonstration. Two older folks there were carrying signs that read “NO GOV HEALTH CARE”, but to me they looked old enough to be on Medicare. They were on Medicare. They explained to me that they didn’t want the government taking it over and messing with it.
    Also, a Tea Party family was at the demonstration, father, mother and one 10 year old son; two more at home. My wife and I chatted with them. The father is a vet that started serving just after the Viet War ended. He was disposing of Agent Orange; which in our opinion may have been the source of his health problems. He had a heart attack about 6 months earlier. Went to the hospital where his wife works as a low level employee. What she said she did only pays low wages. They can’t afford the extra for family health insurance, she was the only one insured since that can’t be refused for more pay. His bill was about $90,000. Her wages were garnished by the hospital; it’s only a small garnishment so it will take a very long time to pay it off. Again, they were there with a Don’t Tread On Me flag and more.
    Are these the Tea Party members you are thinking of? Or are there two kinds of Tea Partiers? What kinds are there?
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 08-01-11 at 12:46 AM. Reason: My wife informed me that it was 90k.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ok. So you support the cuts that happened, but you oppose the tactice they used to get them?
    I did not say that I support the cuts. I said I support significant and real cuts. As it appears to me tonight, these are neither significant nor real.

    When you ask about the tactics used, I will answer you this way. The Dems offered three packages to get past this crisis. All three were dead in the Senate. I am adding the Ryan budget as one of the three because it would have had a major impact on these discussions had it passed in the Senate and been signed by the President.

    There is a chasm a mile wide between the philosophies of the Dems and the GOP. This issue of debt was raised many times in the past and Clinton and a Republican Congress tackled the issue and brought some fiscal order to the system. Bush, partially due to September 11, ran up deficits fighting wars, but he also proposed programs that had nothing to do with September 11 and ballooned the budget. The 2008 housing bubble burst and it brought about a financial calamity. Bush and Obama along with the Dems in Congress tried to spend us out of this problem and it has failed. It has not gotten us out of the disaster we find ourselves in mired into ever ballooning debt.

    Many Dems here have said that we should have just passed the Debt Ceiling as a clear bill. I disagree as did virtually all, if not all, Republicans. Passing a clear bill would have not stopped the spending. Congresses and the Presidents [present and future] need to be more fiscally responsible. That has been the message of the Republicans. The entitlements need reform and so does the tax code. I also believe that the defense budget could be cut and managed much better. Ryan tried to put together a budget that addressed many of these issues. His budget was not perfect, but instead of attempting to perfect it, he was villified, especially by President Obama. It is my belief that the President forced the GOP to stand firm against him and his policies and they did. You may not like it and you may not like the results, but that is how I view the events of this year. Remember, it was President Obama who proposed a budget that was not one of cutting expenditures. In his State of the Union, he virtually ignored the topic. He probably should not lecture people about being adult on topics. I think he has not proven himself in that category.

    So, the GOP, not wanting to give a clear debt ceiling bill and remembering the agreements that the Dems had made with the GOP back in the Reagan and Bush Era about raising taxes and cutting spending where the Dems reneged, stuck to their guns and negotiated using hardball tactics. If it had been the Dems who had done that, you would be cheering them on, but instead, for one of the very few times in history, it was the GOP who held sway. What a refreshing difference.

    The sad news is that the cuts do not appear to be significant or real. On this, I hope I am proven wrong tomorrow. We'll see.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Small cuts wrong areas. 2T over 10 years? About 500B a year but I'm betting thats on future spending, not enough to lower the deficit. Discretionary funds is the worst thing to cut. Mandatory spending needs to be reformed and defense cut and reformed. If you do that you don;t need to take healthcare away from hardworking Americans. Its all a bunch of BS.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Originally Posted by LesGovt

    That was quite a compromise in Boston with the destruction of the tea.
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Go back to history class and read the Constitution. It's full of compromises. Counting slaves at 3/5? Compromise. It's amazing how much of the Constitution you know nothing about, then lecture the rest of us about it.

    So there's this "no compromise in the Constitution" coming from the same person who told me that America didn't change after the Civil War. Until you pass U.S. History, don't even start.
    Where did I make any comment here about the Constitution? Do you just take a person's comment and run with it in any direction you wish? I was commenting about compromise and the Boston Tea Party, which is exactly what I said. And then you spout what you did above. Sheesh.

    I am still awaiting your proof about your comments regarding the changes of our Constitution by the Civil War. You did not reply with anything. I'm patient. I will continue to wait; however, I fear that Hell will freeze over first.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    All that can be done at this point is holding off the inevitable financial and economic collapse of this country. No amount of cost cutting can save us now.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    A full 3 days before I predicted it would happen, too.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    All that can be done at this point is holding off the inevitable financial and economic collapse of this country. No amount of cost cutting can save us now.
    It's really not that bad. This is a 100% GOP-manufactured crisis. We need reasonable entitlement reforms, military cuts, and we need to go back to historically average tax rates. Problem solved.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    I haven't heard any details yet, but I'm betting its mostly budgetary tricks and hot air, a lot like the big "historic" spending cuts the Republicans kept bragging about earlier in the year. All this posturing and bickering and we still get business as usual in the end.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    the teabaggers seem to want to force their views on the majority of Americans, who disagree with them
    if not for tea

    Harry Reid calls for clean debt ceiling vote - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

    everyone saw

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