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Thread: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

  1. #351
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    Re: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

    Moderator's Warning:
    Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....Guys, the topic is the debt deal. Let's actually talk about that here.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Suggest you move to a more pro growth state that doesn't rely solely on govt. spending. Just like a liberal relying on state and local govt. spending. You do realize the taxpayers are tapped out.
    As austerity rises, "Central Falls Becomes Second Muni Casualty of 2011" will be a same story, different name type of ordeal throughout the Obama presidency. Note that Obama and his policies have nothing to do with muni default.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, that doesn't include discouraged workers or workers that are under employed

    You can add these numbers for discouraged workers to the total

    Discouraged workers
    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982
    Until you provide an accurate u-6 figure, your argument is useless.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No one is disputing that Obama inherited a recession, what is your excuse for the decline in GDP growth every month since the first qtr of 2010 with the exception of the booming 1.3% GDP growth? You need to get over your Bush Derangement Syndrome, he isn't on the ballot and all we hear from "your" President are excuses
    Well, when evaluating how far Obama has come,don't you think it's relevant to look at where he started? I do.

    Then, instead of just pointing at numbers and saying "SEE!", as is your wont, it might be helpful to analyze what's behind the numbers. Why has GDP growth slowed? Is it Obama's fault no matter the reason? I mean, if our economy is being affected by contagion from the European debt crisis, which it is, is that Obama's fault? Or if the economy was slowed by supply line interruption from the Japan Tsunami, which it was, is that Obama's fault, too? Of if the slowdown is in part a result of stimulus running out, and the republicans are adamant in their refusal to approve further stimulus, which they are, is that Obama's fault, too?

    I guess I just don't think that Obama is as powerful as you make him out to be.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sorry, but that negative 6.7 GDP contraction was on Bush's watch. As were the the preceding months of GDP contraction.

    An interesting thing you do here...If I am right in reading this, the negative GDP you are looking at were in the first two quarters of '09, and by the final two quarters GDP was at 3.8% positive.

    Now you look at when Obama took over and it is a direct slide downward. to today's 1.4% and you argue that Obama's GDP numbers are better than the last quarters of Bush?

    I may be economically illiterate on a macro scale, and confess when the discussion gets to the point of discussing different minutia about the economic drivers, and stats, my eyes glaze over....But NOWHERE in my former education of math does 1.4% equal greater than 3.8%...

    Anything stating such is spin pure and simple.

    j-mac
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    You might want to check the U.S. Constitution, I haven't seen anything there that say he's in charge of GDP growth. But, even if it were his job, look at the first quarter of 2009, although he was President then, you would have to blame Bush. That's if you were honest.
    You helped put this man in the WH because of the promises he made. These are contrary to the promises but apparently that doesn't matter to you as it is more about ideology and never about results. What is the direction Obama is taking this country. 40% of the people now support him. Most realize those promises were campaign rhetoric that turned out to be lies. You are doing everything possible to justify your vote. My question is why would anyone have a tag line, Obama 2012, with these kind of results? What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty?

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well, when evaluating how far Obama has come,don't you think it's relevant to look at where he started? I do.

    Then, instead of just pointing at numbers and saying "SEE!", as is your wont, it might be helpful to analyze what's behind the numbers. Why has GDP growth slowed? Is it Obama's fault no matter the reason? I mean, if our economy is being affected by contagion from the European debt crisis, which it is, is that Obama's fault? Or if the economy was slowed by supply line interruption from the Japan Tsunami, which it was, is that Obama's fault, too? Of if the slowdown is in part a result of stimulus running out, and the republicans are adamant in their refusal to approve further stimulus, which they are, is that Obama's fault, too?

    I guess I just don't think that Obama is as powerful as you make him out to be.
    I gave you reasons the GDP declined but you don't want reasons, you want to ignore the actual results because of the great smile, teleprompter rhetoric, and youthful movements. Looks to me like you are trying to justify your support for this empty suit. Results matter more than rhetoric, one of these days you will learn that

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Until you provide an accurate u-6 figure, your argument is useless.
    The U-6 number is 16.2% and with a labor force of 153 million that is over 24 million unemployed or under employed

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    An interesting thing you do here...If I am right in reading this, the negative GDP you are looking at were in the first two quarters of '09, and by the final two quarters GDP was at 3.8% positive.

    Now you look at when Obama took over and it is a direct slide downward. to today's 1.4% and you argue that Obama's GDP numbers are better than the last quarters of Bush?

    I may be economically illiterate on a macro scale, and confess when the discussion gets to the point of discussing different minutia about the economic drivers, and stats, my eyes glaze over....But NOWHERE in my former education of math does 1.4% equal greater than 3.8%...

    Anything stating such is spin pure and simple.

    j-mac
    What I'm saying, quite simply, is that the economy was contracting sharply when Obama was handed the reins, and that it is now growing, albeit not as fast as anyone would like. Presidents can influence these macro trends to a degree, but they simply do not have the power to control them absolutely. My feeling is that Obama has done most of the right things, and about as much as he could do given the toxic political climate.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    What specifically did Bush do to lose those jobs?
    His and Republicans policies which led to the financial meltdown. Democrats share some of the blame but not as much since they took over just 11 months before the Bush Great Recession began, there's not much they could have done had they even tried, which they didn't, to prevent the housing bubble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    As for the lost jobs, amazing how you ignore there was still a net job gain during the Bush years but that doesn't matter to an ideologue like you.
    I was talking about the Bush Great Recession.

    8,000,000 jobs lost.
    Hey, I know, let's use your math of calculating the underemployed for that period and see what numbers we get, shall we?...

    Dec/2007: U6=8.8%; LF=153,936,000; Underemployed=13,546,368
    Jun/2009: U6=16.5%; LF=154,754,000; Underemployed=25,534,410

    Total underemployed during Bush's Great Recession: 11,988,042

    Wait, let's do that for Bush's first 29 months in office, ok?

    Jan/2001: U6=7.3%; LF=143,800,000; Underemployed=10,497,400
    Jun/2003: U6=10.3%; LF=147,400,000; Underemployed=15,146,768

    Total underemployed during Bush's first 29 months: 4,649,368

    How about Bush's entire administration, ok?

    Jan/2001: U6=7.3%; LF=143,800,000; Underemployed=10,497,400
    Jan/2009: U6=14%; LF=154,185,000; Underemployed=21,585,900

    Total underemployed during Bush's 8 years in office: 11,088,500

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