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Thread: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

  1. #181
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Bush with his "starve the beast" tax cuts. That's when the debt became unmanageable.
    According to claims here by those opposed to them, the Bush tax cuts added $1.2T to the debt - over 10 years.
    -That's- what's made the debt unmamagable?

  2. #182
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    This is ONLY true if you choose to not reduce spending.
    Reducing revenue cannot, by itself, cause a deficit
    "by itself" would imply "without matching reductions in spending". So yeah, "by itself" it could.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    False. Every dollar is voluntarily spent; at any time, any and all spending can be reduced.
    That is only true in the most literal sense. In a practical sense, it is not true. We cannot simply choose to stop paying interest on the debt, or stop paying the military, or stop making social security and medicare payments.

  4. #184
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post

    Here we go again, as I pointed out to you, conservative economists don't believe tax cuts pay for themselves, so its not just a liberal thingy. Fact is that President Clinton handed President Bush a budget surplus. We know appropriations that were approved after the budget cycle are not part of the budget, so these are not reflected in the surplus. So even though Clinton had a budget surplus, the debt still grew some, but the debt was becoming manageable. The in comes Bush with his "starve the beast" tax cuts. That's when the debt became unmanageable.

    national debt = previous national debt + current years deficit + plus appropriations.
    The Bush deficits:

    FY2002: 420,772,553,397
    FY2003: 554,995,097,146
    FY2004: 595,821,633,587
    FY2005: 553,656,965,393
    FY2006: 574,264,237,492
    FY2007: 500,679,473,047
    FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650
    FY2009: 1,885,104,106,599

    Debt to the Penny

    Any questions?
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 08-01-11 at 12:37 PM.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's true that general tax cuts do not reduce revenue 1:1. As you say, there is a stimulative effect. But it has been studied many times and even die-hard supply siders no longer claim that tax cuts don't reduce revenue. The official estimate when the Bush tax cuts were passed was that they would reduce revenue by $1.35 trillion. That is probably pretty accurate.
    Yet the treasury numbers say you and others are wrong. Tax cuts are indeed stimulative and make economic growth easier. Liberals and many economists never understood human behavior nor do they understand as I posted how govt. revenue grew. There was no cut in revenue and only projections on what the revenue would have been. Those projections are just as good as all the other projections these days which are never right. Why do you have such a problem keeping more of what you earn? That is the bottomline, people have to stop believing politician or economist rhetoric and think.

  6. #186
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's really not that bad.
    Yes, it is. People just don't want to see it. How do I know? I watch the value of the dollar. I also observe how other countries are currently getting rid of the dollar in favor of other currencies. Also, I observe how the dollar will eventually be replaced as the international trade standard. ( Dollar should be replaced as international standard, U.N. report says - CNN.com ) When this happens, the US will not be able to borrow vast amounts of money from China and other countries. Default or not, it means trouble for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is a 100% GOP-manufactured crisis.
    Bipartisan nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    We need reasonable entitlement reforms, military cuts, and we need to go back to historically average tax rates. Problem solved.
    No. Problem not solved. Anything and everything done at this point will only hold off the inevitable collapse. I stand behind that 100%.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  7. #187
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The Bush deficits:

    FY2002: 420,772,553,397
    FY2003: 554,995,097,146
    FY2004: 595,821,633,587
    FY2005: 553,656,965,393
    FY2006: 574,264,237,492
    FY2007: 500,679,473,047
    FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650
    FY2009: 1,885,104,106,599

    Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

    Any questions?
    Yep, how did the Obama stimulus, Afghanistan surge supplemental, use and support of TARP, along with the other Obama supplementals in 2009 affect that 2009 deficit? Here we go again, you got your ass kicked on the other thread so now you want it done here. Amazing what a diehard supporter you are and are now part ofthe 40% that support Obama today.

    it really doesn't matter what Clinton did, what Bush did because this is the Obama economy and the results speak for themselves.

    Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

    Then there is the .4% and 1.3% GDP growth in fiscal year 2011

  8. #188
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That is only true in the most literal sense. In a practical sense, it is not true. We cannot simply choose to stop paying interest on the debt, or stop paying the military, or stop making social security and medicare payments.
    I already gave you the debt service, cost of military, cost of SS/Medicare, and cost of Veterans benefits on a monthly basis but apparently you chose not to pay any attention. There is enough money to pay those obligations

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    "by itself" would imply "without matching reductions in spending". So yeah, "by itself" it could.
    No.... by itself, it cannot; you must also make the choice to not also reduce spending.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    For those who are interested, the full text of the agreement can be found at: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sec...BT_016_xml.pdf

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