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Thread: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So let me see if I have this correct, you contribute to SS and have no problem with the govt. taking that money and putting it on budget and spending it leaving you with an IOU? Total debt equals public debt plus intergovt. holdings and that is what we pay debt service on. That amounts right now due to low interest rates at 200 billion a year of tax dollars to fund it. Is that what you call liberal logic?
    It has nothing to do with whether or not I approve of the accounting. It has everything to do with being CONSISTENT in the method you use to come up with these numbers. In other words, if you don't want to include intergovernmental holdings when you talk about Clinton, that's fine with me. But then you also have to exclude them when you talk about Reagan, and Bush I, and Bush II. Otherwise you're just changing the rules to reach the result you want.

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    Re: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

    Quote Originally Posted by SypherAL View Post
    You are trying to go so deep into this issue to find ANYTHING you can to convince yourself democrats are wrong, and you, along with conservatives are right. I dont have that problem. I can look at facts and draw conclusions based on whats real, and whats not. I am loyal to my party because I believe government. I believe government growth is the KEY to economic growth. Actually, I dont think we are spending enough money right now in washington. Even economists say you dont CUT government down to lower our debt, you spend MORE and increase government size. This is something the GOP is un-willing to accept. Hard REAL information from a credible source, kind of like Global Warming. The GOP might be able to trick some Americans into buying their B.S., but I know the truth. The GOP's goal is to destroy the lower and middle class and make Americans rely on large corporations to survive, and THAT my friend, is called DICTATORSHIP.
    One must give creit where it is due -- it is rare to see someone who is openly proud of his partisan bigotry.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well, many of them are paying the price for bank deregulation -- being that they're unemployed because of the financial meltdown. Others are paying the price in the form of wage stagnation, i.e., because blue collar pay has been stagnant for a decade while whitle collar pay has been skyrocketing.

    See, it's a bit inconsistent to constantly promote policies that hammer the middle class and then whine because the middle class isn't paying more in taxes.
    Isn't it amazing that Obama inherited the "worst recession since the Great Depression" and that recession ended five months after he took office? today we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth and a record that will be on the ballot in 2012, a record that you will ignore.

    Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
    Not whining about what the middle class pays in taxes because quite frankly I understand that we have a spending problem NOT a revenue problem. Facts always confuse a liberal
    Last edited by Conservative; 08-01-11 at 11:31 AM.

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    Re: Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

    Lesse...
    1: Spendng cuts
    2: More spending cuts on the way
    3: No tax hikes

    USA/GOP/TEA/conservatives: Win
    Dems/liberals: Lose

    Last edited by PzKfW IVe; 08-01-11 at 11:33 AM.

  5. #135
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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It has nothing to do with whether or not I approve of the accounting. It has everything to do with being CONSISTENT in the method you use to come up with these numbers. In other words, if you don't want to include intergovernmental holdings when you talk about Clinton, that's fine with me. But then you also have to exclude them when you talk about Reagan, and Bush I, and Bush II. Otherwise you're just changing the rules to reach the result you want.
    I have always included intergovt. holdings in debt discussions because that is where they belong. Obama has added 4 trillion to the debt in less than 3 years and what do we have to show for it, 24+ million Americans unemployed or under employed, .4% and 1.3% 2012 GDP growth and we are two years after the end of a recession.

    Total debt is all that matters for that is what we pay debt service on

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Isn't it amazing that Obama inherited the "worst recession since the Great Depression" and that recession ended five months have he took office? today we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth and a record that will be on the ballot in 2012, a record that you will ignore.



    Not whining about what the middle class pays in taxes because quite frankly I understand that we have a spending problem NOT a revenue problem. Facts always confuse a liberal
    It's not amazing that the recession ended about half a year into Obama's presidency. He made the right calls to help reverse the slide. To his credit, Bush also made the right call in signing TARP.

    The fact is that we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. Time and time again the American people -- liberals AND conservatives -- have made it clear that they favor Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a strong military. We can't achieve all of those things without raising more revenue. This should be pretty basic arithmetic, even for a conservative.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's not amazing that the recession ended about half a year into Obama's presidency. He made the right calls to help reverse the slide. To his credit, Bush also made the right call in signing TARP.

    The fact is that we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. Time and time again the American people -- liberals AND conservatives -- have made it clear that they favor Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a strong military. We can't achieve all of those things without raising more revenue. This should be pretty basic arithmetic, even for a conservative.
    Since Obama made the right call, explain how we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth the first two qtrs. of 2011 and how we have 24 million plus unemployed and under employed Americans today? Obama budgets are 3.7 trillion dollars. the 2008 Bush budget was 3.0 trillion. Look at what we have to show for that increase in spending?

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have always included intergovt. holdings in debt discussions because that is where they belong. Obama has added 4 trillion to the debt in less than 3 years and what do we have to show for it, 24+ million Americans unemployed or under employed, .4% and 1.3% 2012 GDP growth and we are two years after the end of a recession.

    Total debt is all that matters for that is what we pay debt service on
    No, Obama did not add $4 trillion to the debt. Most of that spending was beyond his control. If he had tried to slash spending the deficit would be even worse, given that pesky worst-recession-since-WWII problem he had to deal with. I realize this is usually the intellectual "bridge too far" for many conservatives; if you go to austerity measures during a recession it makes the recession worse, which has a drastic effect on revenue, which increases the deficit.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    Why do we need to raise taxes and how does raising taxes put 24 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to full time work?
    It worked for Clinton.

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    Re: Obama: We have a deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, Obama did not add $4 trillion to the debt. Most of that spending was beyond his control. If he had tried to slash spending the deficit would be even worse, given that pesky worst-recession-since-WWII problem he had to deal with. I realize this is usually the intellectual "bridge too far" for many conservatives; if you go to austerity measures during a recession it makes the recession worse, which has a drastic effect on revenue, which increases the deficit.
    Where do you get your information? Obama was in the Congress and voted for TARP yet he claims he inherited a deficit which of course included TARP. You cannot inherit what you helped create. You continue to buy his rhetoric and the question is why? GDP growth for the past 6 qtrs has declined, why? What has OBama done that has improved the economy?

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