Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
Get with the program, man! We're supposed to pretend that the world was created the day Obama took office. And look what he did! His first month the economy lost over 700,000 jobs!!

We lost a lot of jobs in 2008 and yet Bush still had a net job gain. Obama's employment and unemployment record today is worse than when he took office and before he implemented his stimulus plan. You want to judge Bush simply by 2008 but ignore what Obama has done over two years after the end of the recession he inherited.

LesGovt · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
No, I don't. What happens in years like 2008 and 2009 when a recession wreaks havoc on the budget? We're supposed to be forced by the Constitution to cut much needed spending during a recession? That would surely doom the economy.

Oh, I think there could be emergency escape hatches in the amendment. If there were, would you now support it?

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

LesGovt said:
Oh, I think there could be emergency escape hatches in the amendment. If there were, would you now support it?

The exceptions would have to be specific, rather than general - in a time of declared war, for example.

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
We lost a lot of jobs in 2008 and yet Bush still had a net job gain. Obama's employment and unemployment record today is worse than when he took office and before he implemented his stimulus plan. You want to judge Bush simply by 2008 but ignore what Obama has done over two years after the end of the recession he inherited.

Not at all. I want to focus on what Obama has done under the circumstances that he was facing. If you think he could have done better, I'm very curious to know what you think he SHOULD have done differently?

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

LesGovt said:
Oh, I think there could be emergency escape hatches in the amendment. If there were, would you now support it?

No, because there are to many "emergency escape hatches" which render it pretty useless. Could be anything from a recession, to a war, to extreme weather conditions, to a stock market crash.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
Not at all. I want to focus on what Obama has done under the circumstances that he was facing. If you think he could have done better, I'm very curious to know what you think he SHOULD have done differently?

I first of all wouldn't have implemented a stimulus plan that did nothing to stimulate job creation and sell it on the basis that it would. I wouldn't have implemented Obamacare that is going to cost small business and do nothing to lower heallthcare costs.

What I find amazing is that the "worst recession since the Great Depression" as liberals called it ended less than 5 months after Obama took office and today over two years later we have .4% GDP growth, 1.3% GDP growth and 24 plus million unemployed or under employed Americans.

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
Not at all. I want to focus on what Obama has done under the circumstances that he was facing.

Translation - you will continue to:
-Blame the GOP
-Absolve the Dems
-Defend The Obama

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

PzKfW IVe said:
The exceptions would have to be specific, rather than general - in a time of declared war, for example.

Ok, so we're nearing the end of the fiscal year, the budget is stretched to its Constitutional limit and the federal government can't spend anymore when along comes another hurricane like Katrina ... what then? So now that's another "exception" to the amendment?

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Ok, so we're nearing the end of the fiscal year, the budget is stretched to it's Constitutional limit and the federal government can't spend anymore when along comes another hurricane like Katrina ... what then? So now that's another "exception" to the amendment.

So... the government doesn't spend the money.
:shrug:

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Ok, so we're nearing the end of the fiscal year, the budget is stretched to it's Constitutional limit and the federal government can't spend anymore when along comes another hurricane like Katrina ... what then? So now that's another "exception" to the amendment.

PzKfW IVe said:

So... the government doesn't spend the money.
:shrug:

Click to expand...

I sure would like to see the GOP try to sell that to the American people ...

GOP: we're gonna let people starve in New Orleans because that's Louisiana's problem and we can't spend another dime federally because we added a Constitutional amendment prohibiting us from borrowing any more money until October 1st.

VanceMack · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

TurtleDude said:
that is the place where there should be compromise

the GOP compromises by cutting some military spending
the Dems compromise by cutting social spending

in other words both sides give up areas where they buy votes

raising taxes has no relevance. anyone who supports raising taxes BEFORE the government can prove it can cut has way too much faith those clowns in DC

Meanwhile, they keep intact an annual 'discretionary' budget of well over a trillion dollars. The amount of 'savings' in this legislation is a pittance. 2.4 trillion in 10 years? That ensures the total annual debt will continue to GROW. Both sides were so invested in protecting their ass they compromised on nothing.

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
I sure would like to see the GOP try to sell that to the American people ...

There's always the possibility of not spending the money on something else.
Fact remains - if you don't have it, you don't spend it. It's not a difficult concept.
:shrug:

...because we added a Constitutional amendment prohibiting us from borrowing any more money until October 1st....

A BBA would preclude borrowing, period.

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

PzKfW IVe said:
There's always the possibility of not spending the money on something else.
Fact remains - if you don't have it, you don't spend it. It's not a difficult concept.
;shrug:

A BBA would preclude borrowing, period.

As a nation, we've been borrowing from the beginning. It's only been growing out of control since Reagan implemented his voodoo economics.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
As a nation, we've been borrowing from the beginning. It's only been growing out of control since Reagan implemented his voodoo economics.

For someone who wasn't old enough during the Reagan years you are sure can expert on the Reagan years. That is what you do, divert from the present to continue to blame the past for your own failures.

Only in the liberal world is giving benefit to the taxpayer(tax cuts) an expense to the Federal govt. and the liberal agenda

The Prof · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
That would surely doom the economy.

and yet it won't

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

Rahm Emanuel sends layoff notices to city workers in union showdown - Chicago Sun-Times

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
As a nation, we've been borrowing from the beginning. It's only been growing out of control since Reagan implemented his voodoo economics.

Fact remains - if you don't have it, you don't spend it. It's not a difficult concept.
:shrug:

In the instance you propose - and, apparently have decided to walk away from - you have several choices under a BBA:
-As mentioned, you simply do not spend the money.
-As mentioned you shift money from somewhere else
-Allocate money in the next FY
-Allocate money each year to a Natural Disaster Reserve Fund, used to cover such things when they happen.

Being a liberal, it's not a surprise that your first reaction would be to borrow money to cover the perceived need for the federal government to spend money.

LesGovt · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
No, because there are to many "emergency escape hatches" which render it pretty useless. Could be anything from a recession, to a war, to extreme weather conditions, to a stock market crash.

It could be better defined than this. Two-thirds vote of Congress might be the only needed hatch. It could include war with 2/3s vote of both Houses and it might include any financial disaster wher unemployment reaches 9% or greater with 2/3s vote. In each of these cases, perhaps a 2/3s vote would have to be done to continue the hatch. And, another safety valve could be that whatever debt was created during the period it is used must be repaid in full over the next 5 or 8 years.

My guess is that you would not support this either. My other guess would be that you don't want the Federal Government to act responsibly when it comes to spending. That is just a guess.

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
For someone who wasn't old enough during the Reagan years you are sure can expert on the Reagan years.

Are you ever going to stop lying?

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

LesGovt said:
My guess is that you would not support this either. My other guess would be that you don't want the Federal Government to act responsibly when it comes to spending. That is just a guess.

If you limit the government's ability to spend, you thwart the Dems/liberals attepmts to buy votes thru their promises to hand out government money.
To this, they will -never- agree.

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

The Prof said:
and yet it won't

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

Rahm Emanuel sends layoff notices to city workers in union showdown - Chicago Sun-Times

It's easier for a state to pass such legislation, knowing that in a real emergency, they can turn to the federal government to bail them out.

Who would the federal government turn to in such a case?

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Are you ever going to stop lying?

Are you ever going to address the Obama record and how anyone can support someone with .4% GDP growth, 1.3% GDP growth two years AFTER the end of a recession? Obviously you helped put this incompetent in the WH so instead of fessing up and admitting your error you continue to dig the hole deeper. It will be the Obama record on the ballot in 2012, not Reagan and Bush.

I don't lie but you sure use that word a lot. too bad you aren't paying attention to Obama because there is the definition of a lie

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

PzKfW IVe said:
Fact remains - if you don't have it, you don't spend it. It's not a difficult concept.
:shrug:

In the instance you propose - and, apparently have decided to walk away from - you have several choices under a BBA:[/QUOTE]
Not an option. Look what it took, and how long in took, for Congress to agree on this matter which staved off an economic nightmare. You think people in disaster striken communities can wait for Democrats and Republicans to decide where to take the money from in order to provide it for those in an emergency?

PzKfW IVe said:
-As mentioned, you simply do not spend the money.

Not an option. We don't let communities struck by disaster to "pick thenselves up by their bootstraps" and "fend for themselves" in this nation when calamity strikes.

PzKfW IVe said:
-As mentioned you shift money from somewhere else

Same as the first non-option.

PzKfW IVe said:
-Allocate money in the next FY

That is an option, it's what we do now.

PzKfW IVe said:
-Allocate money each year to a Natural Disaster Reserve Fund, used to cover such things when they happen.

So there's what? A Natural Disaster Reserve Fund for natural disasters ... and a Recession Reserve Fund for periods during economic downturns ... and Wartime Reserve Fund for periods when we are at war ... and a Natural Disaster Reserve Fund for natural disasters ... and a Wall Street Reserve Fund for when the market crashes ... and ... etc, etc, etc.

PzKfW IVe said:
Being a liberal, it's not a surprise that your first reaction would be to borrow money to cover the perceived need for the federal government to spend money.

Now that's funny coming from the Conservative party of fiscal responsibility we've seen since Reagan. :roll:

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
In the instance you propose - and, apparently have decided to walk away from - you have several choices under a BBA:

Not an option. Look what it took, and how long in took, for Congress to agree on this matter which staved off an economic nightmare. You think people in disaster striken communities can wait for Democrats and Republicans to decide where to take the money from in order to provide it for those in an emergency?

Not an option. We don't let communities struck by disaster to "pick thenselves up by their bootstraps" and "fend for themselves" in this nation when calamity strikes.

Same as the first non-option.

That is an option, it's what we do now.

So there's what? A Natural Disaster Reserve Fund for natural disasters ... and a Recession Reserve Fund for periods during economic downturns ... and Wartime Reserve Fund for periods when we are at war ... and a Natural Disaster Reserve Fund for natural disasters ... and a Wall Street Reserve Fund for when the market crashes ... and ... etc, etc, etc.

Now that's funny coming from the Conservative party of fiscal responsibility we've seen since Reagan. :roll:[/QUOTE]

You don't have a problem with the liberal attitude that giving the taxpayer a benefit in the form of Tax cuts is actually an expense to the Federal Govt? Amazing that you don't have a problem with that attitude

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

LesGovt said:
My guess is that you would not support this either. My other guess would be that you don't want the Federal Government to act responsibly when it comes to spending. That is just a guess.

And it's a poor guess at that. No, I just think there are better ways to make the government behave more fiscally responsible without putting guidelines into place which can create a foreseable disasters. Most notibly, by not voting for those who pass bills you strongly oppose.

LesGovt · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
And it's a poor guess at that. No, I just think there are better ways to make the government behave more fiscally responsible without putting guidelines into place which can create a foreseable disasters. Most notibly, by not voting for those who pass bills you strongly oppose.

Very soft answer. You did not disagree with my final safety hatch nor did you explain why it could not work.

Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.