Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 50 of 50

Thread: House rejects Senate Democratic debt bill(edited)

  1. #41
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,079

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Have you read either debt limit bill coming from either side? Have you even read the Cut, Cap and Balance bill? It doesn't dare touch Social Security, Medicare or VA benefits and services; it "excluse" them from reforms or spending caps.
    Republicans tried to reform Social Security in 2005 and Medicare and Medicaid in 2011. Please link to the Democrats supportive of those efforts, thanks .

    You won't get the reforms you belief are necessary in entitlements within the next four days. Not gonna happen.
    barring a sudden agreement by Democrats to **** over their base and not demand major tax hikes with entitlement reform, probably not.

    which is why I say that AAA is very likely doomed anywho. We will see if we can hold it long enough to get to spring of 2013; when the people can decide whose approach to go with, and that Party can do so.

    Either we take the best parts of both bills and combine them into one, or both parties will force the President to choose between facing a Constitutional inquiry which the nation will only see as a total capitulation by Congress' failure to do their duty and uphold their consititutional oath to protect the "full faith and credit of the United States". They will not blame the President for this failure; they will blame Congress.
    the House has now passed two options, including one in which the Majority Party leadership was willing to face down a revolt in it's own ranks to pass. the Senate has passed nothing. The President has issued no plan, only veto threats. I'm pretty sure I have an inkling of who the country will blame at this point.

  2. #42
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,068

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Im about 65% sure there will be a last second deal like there always is...
    65% sure?????? What on earth does that mean?

  3. #43
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    cpwill you are wrong. The government needs to spend money, no one else is doing it. You want to cut spending not because of economic factors but because it furthers your social agenda of less government, the economy be damned. We are a consumer economy, we don't produce enough, if someone doesn't spend the economy will never recover, it will just keep getting worst.
    It's like I've been saying since the economic crisis began - CORPORATE AMERICAN CANNOT CORRECT ITSELF!? Our financial institutions broke the piggy bank. The bank was on it's way toward repairing itself until: a) the House held up a jobs bill that could have put people back to work long ago; b) Stimulus money began to dry up and state's didn't use the money they received to do any meaningful public-private deals that would have created jobs; c) Republican leaders started doing whatever they could to place even more people on social programs whether from federal or state government. After than, things started going downhill. And if you've paid attention to the stock market over the last month but in particular over the last week, you'll know that it fluctuated for a while, but had hovered around 12,400 until the last week to 10-days when it's dropped nearly every day. The Dow closed at 12,143 on Friday. If the debt limit isn't raised by the time the Asia markets open Sunday, I would not be surprised to see it drop below 19,990 by the time the markets close on Monday, if not worse.

    I hope everyone in Congress were given copies of that OP article, as well as that latest news articles from both FoxNews and MSNBC clearly indicating the Republican leadership wanting to compromise now with "the right people in the room" and "the only person in the room who can sign a document into law". What they should get from those reads is the for the first time in a long time, the media isn't being partisan. They're both saying the exact same thing.

    I also hope the elderly read the OP article, too. Social Security was started as their financial safety net. I can understand why they don't want it to be touched. But they also have to know that with more of them on it because they need to accept the facts about their generation - that it's living longer yet alot of them are unhealthy and it's costing both Social Security and Medicare tons. The other side of these two entitlement equations, however, is that the government hasn't helped matters by putting more people on Social Security who haven't paid into it and applying a prescription drug component to Medicare that wasn't paid for.

    This country has alot of dysfunction to recover from - greed among our financial institutions, selfishness by the elderly, political stubborness on both sides of the divide and an over-indulgence of stuff purchased on credit by pretty much all. We've applied too many short-term band-aids and placed the economic burden on one side of the economic scale for far too long. Republicans were right. This country does need a course correction....a change in its partisanship and its national politic. Instead of pointing figures at each other, both sides need to understand how they've "contributed to the chaos" and come to a reasonable compromise to correct the problems we face. Otherwise, we all fall. And alot of people will be pissed. And if you thought the images of Greecians, Egypt, Syria were bad. Wait 'til you turn on your televisions August 4th and see the crowd of protesters outside the Capital. Like the man in the OP article said, "The people know how much the government owes them." They won't stand for not getting paid a dime of the money they either paid to the government or invested in good faith with it.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-31-11 at 03:08 AM.

  4. #44
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    07-22-17 @ 06:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    620

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    a little under 2/3rds of Americans supported Cut Cap and Balance, and more than two-thirds support a Balanced Budget Amendment.

    when he alters his rhetoric to call for a BBA in light of that, then I'll believe that he actually thinks polls matter.
    A clear majority of Americans want the wealthy to pay more in taxes and think that tax hikes should be a part of a debt deal. When Republicans start caring about polls, let me know.


  5. #45
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    A clear majority of Americans want the wealthy to pay more in taxes and think that tax hikes should be a part of a debt deal. When Republicans start caring about polls, let me know.
    Nobody outside of Obama is calling for tax hikes. Even he argued against them not long ago. Never let a crises go to waste though.

  6. #46
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Default is looming

    The Reid bill has been defeated in both the House and the Senate. Now, the real negotiations can begin. Just so everyone understands what's happened overall:

    Boehner's first bill gets voted down in the House; they don't send it to the Senate. Instead, Boehner goes to work revising his initial piece of legislation.

    Boehnor's revised bill (2nd attempt) passes the House, but gets tabled in the Senate meaning the Senate merely refused to bring the bill to the floor for a formal "up or down vote". They just refused to do anything with it other than set it aside.

    Meanwhile, the Senate sends the Reid bill to the House for a vote. It gets defeated.

    All party leadership meet once again at the White House where one side shows alot more willingness to compromise than they had before. Base on what I've been reading and hearing in news cycles, both sides appear to agree in principle to the following:

    - raise the debt limit to atleast $2.5 trillion
    - cut spending by atleast $3 trillion over 10 yrs
    - cap discretionary spending for 10-yrs
    - no tax hikes thru 2012 (Translation: Bush tax cuts will expire and the tax code will be revised)
    - establish 12-member deficit commission whose recommendations will take hold unless Congress reforms entitlements and appropriates bills accordingly over the next 10-yrs

    Summary: The tabling of Boenher's 2nd bill in the Senate and the defeat of Reid's bill in the House creates conditions for both sides to embrace the framework for a compromise along the lines as outlined above. The debt limit will get raised and Congress will work harder to keep spending under control, and in the near future will work on tax and entitlement reforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Nobody outside of Obama is calling for tax hikes. Even he argued against them not long ago. Never let a crises go to waste though.
    Clearly, some of you still don't get it. There's no way this country can reduce the deficit without cutting spending AND increasing taxes or at the very least eliminating tax loopholes. It's going to take 10 years just to pay off $2-3 trillion in debt! How much longer do you think it will take to pay off the remaining $11 trillion without raising revenue? And mind you, this is only public and privately held debt (mostly on investors, both foreign and domestic; all those short-term bonds aren't held by China alone. Social Security is tied to long-term bonds, but domestic investors buy alot of short-term bonds which have to be paid). Really think it through, folks. Our debt problem is ALOT larger than most people think!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-31-11 at 03:01 PM.

  7. #47
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,709

    Re: Default is looming

    from 1Perry

    Never let a crises go to waste though.
    On the GOP side you would have to add the word MANUFACTURED in the middle of that statement. They certainly are milking that cow for all they can get. Obama seems unable to even find the pail.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #48
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Republicans tried to reform Social Security in 2005 and Medicare and Medicaid in 2011. Please link to the Democrats supportive of those efforts, thanks .
    I wasn't arguing that the Dems had tried to do any with entitlement reforms other than pass ObamaCare. However, what I was trying to get you and others to realize is that neither have Republicans especially in this latest bill called Cut, Cap and Balance. And as I've pointed by posting the specific subparagraph to the bill, CCB excludes Social Security, Medicare and VA benefits and spending from being capped. So, at present neither side really wants to touch entitlements in a meaningful way.

    barring a sudden agreement by Democrats to **** over their base and not demand major tax hikes with entitlement reform, probably not.

    which is why I say that AAA is very likely doomed anywho. We will see if we can hold it long enough to get to spring of 2013; when the people can decide whose approach to go with, and that Party can do so.

    the House has now passed two options, including one in which the Majority Party leadership was willing to face down a revolt in it's own ranks to pass. the Senate has passed nothing. The President has issued no plan, only veto threats. I'm pretty sure I have an inkling of who the country will blame at this point.
    We both agree that both sides will compromise now. I've outlined what I believe those compromises will be. Let's just see if the country gets better legislation out of the deal.

  9. #49
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    because the point of the debt limit is to restrict action, not encourage it.
    So, what about this debt limit deal encourages more spending?

  10. #50
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: Default is looming

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    We are not going to default. We are not going to default. We are not going to default. We are not going to default. We are not going to default.
    Wishful thinking?? Or do you care to elaborate, preferably with numbers, how the US can go without bankrupting?


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Clearly, some of you still don't get it. There's no way this country can reduce the deficit without cutting spending AND increasing taxes or at the very least eliminating tax loopholes. It's going to take 10 years just to pay off $2-3 trillion in debt! How much longer do you think it will take to pay off the remaining $11 trillion without raising revenue? And mind you, this is only public and privately held debt (mostly on investors, both foreign and domestic; all those short-term bonds aren't held by China alone. Social Security is tied to long-term bonds, but domestic investors buy alot of short-term bonds which have to be paid). Really think it through, folks. Our debt problem is ALOT larger than most people think!
    Ya, it's a friggin joke... 10 years down the line there's going to be something like 10-20trillion dollars added to that debt because of interest (I'm just guessing at actual numbers, but the total derivative debt, according to new york times a couple months ago was around 600 trillion dollars)...

    In other words, it's now at the point where we can put 100% of GDP towards the debt + a 100% tax rate (which would not work, I know) and STILL run out of money and still only be paying on interest on that debt.

    It should be getting more and more apparent that those "doom and gloomers" were correct this whole time, while they were quietly preparing for the difficult times ahead.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •