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Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

The horrible thing is, the worst time to cut spending is during a recession.
 
The horrible thing is, the worst time to cut spending is during a recession.

The horrible thing is: getting out of a recession requires everyone, pretty much, to fall further into debt - country and mankind alike. This is what we've built for ourselves.

If you have to interest rate your ass out day and night are you really climbing out of a recession or postponing the inevitable?
 
I agree with that

What happened with so many is that they ran into hard times - and had nothing saved up to get them through it. Or, savings wasn't sufficient enough and ran out - they reverted to credit (if they had any left) and in the end people either didn't have money to spend like usual. Or they looked at where the ywere spending their money and said "nope - can't do this anymore . . .if I had saved instead of spent spent spent then I'd be ok right now"

Ergo: savings is increasing (slowly) while spending is still lulled off.

I'm i nthat boat: I'm not about to increase my spending knowing what it would leave us otherwise unprepared for.

Such is the price for relying heavily on excessive spending for unecessary items.
 
It's pathetic that people are only discussing and realizing this *now*

It's not as if a few years ago we were well off economically - this snowdrift has built ridiculous high over decades and many people who tried to blow the whistle over all this time have been laughed at and ignored.

Well, I hope you didn't expect them to talk about it when there was a republican in the white house

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It's pathetic that people are only discussing and realizing this *now*

It's not as if a few years ago we were well off economically - this snowdrift has built ridiculous high over decades and many people who tried to blow the whistle over all this time have been laughed at and ignored.

Three years ago I read Naomi Klein's prophetic book Shock Doctrine. She's a Canadian economist educated at the London School of Economics. I was blown away by the book. Actually I bought and gave away three copies to friends who I knew would read it. To this day we email each other and quote her book. Shock Doctrine was/is a blueprint, a checklist, a manual for virtually everything that is happening today. Klein documents it and connects the dotted lines. Since the book she's been quoted often and has apparently been in demand on the speaker circuit. But on the evening news? In newspapers? No. I don't know why.
 
The horrible thing is: getting out of a recession requires everyone, pretty much, to fall further into debt - country and mankind alike. This is what we've built for ourselves.

If you have to interest rate your ass out day and night are you really climbing out of a recession or postponing the inevitable?

We don't have the money, the power nor the consensus. That is by design, believe it or not. I do hope we can find a way out, but it isn't looking too good. Politics aside, the money and the power are held by a very small number of Americans. They have nothing to lose and much to gain if the nation goes into default. In fact, after a brief period of suckage they have a lot to gain.
 
Three years ago I read Naomi Klein's prophetic book Shock Doctrine. She's a Canadian economist educated at the London School of Economics. I was blown away by the book. Actually I bought and gave away three copies to friends who I knew would read it. To this day we email each other and quote her book. Shock Doctrine was/is a blueprint, a checklist, a manual for virtually everything that is happening today. Klein documents it and connects the dotted lines. Since the book she's been quoted often and has apparently been in demand on the speaker circuit. But on the evening news? In newspapers? No. I don't know why.

That book explains exeactly what is going on. This crisis is nothing but a show
 
The horrible thing is, the worst time to cut spending is during a recession.

that is incorrect. during a recession is the best time to reduce the drag of government.
 
Well, I hope you didn't expect them to talk about it when there was a republican in the white house

of course we were. that's why George Bush tried to fix Social Security. only to be abandoned by Republicans and hounded by infuriated Democrats.
 
of course we were. that's why George Bush tried to fix Social Security. only to be abandoned by Republicans and hounded by infuriated Democrats.

Umm, SS reduces the deficit and the debt.

rightwingers keep quiet about spending and debt when there's a republican in the white house because they LOVE spending and debt, as long as they're the ones doing the spending and racking up the debt
 
cpwill you are wrong. The government needs to spend money, no one else is doing it. You want to cut spending not because of economic factors but because it furthers your social agenda of less government, the economy be damned. We are a consumer economy, we don't produce enough, if someone doesn't spend the economy will never recover, it will just keep getting worst.
 
We don't have the money, the power nor the consensus. That is by design, believe it or not. I do hope we can find a way out, but it isn't looking too good. Politics aside, the money and the power are held by a very small number of Americans. They have nothing to lose and much to gain if the nation goes into default. In fact, after a brief period of suckage they have a lot to gain.

There is no design - that's the great fault of the ssytem. So unregulated and so 'free' that it folds in on itself like a cold-nipped rising yorkshire pudding in the oven.
 
Is that why reagan and ghwb both raised taxes during a recession?

:shrug: both men made the same error, and trusted Congressional Democrats to actually make good on their promises to cut spending in proportion to the tax increases. Both got hoodwinked because no, when they pretty promise that this time they really mean to stop spending, they aren't trustworthy.
 
Umm, SS reduces the deficit and the debt.

this is incorrect. SS Started running a deficit in 2010, and the CBO says it will continue to do so every year from here on out.

rightwingers keep quiet about spending and debt when there's a republican in the white house because they LOVE spending and debt, as long as they're the ones doing the spending and racking up the debt

:shrug: you'll get no arguments from me that Republicans screwed the pooch. but that doesn't excuse Democrats cutting said pooch's head off.
 
cpwill you are wrong. The government needs to spend money, no one else is doing it.

gosh I wonder why - where did all the money go?

oh yeah. it got sucked into treasury bonds.

You want to cut spending not because of economic factors but because it furthers your social agenda of less government, the economy be damned. ]/quote]

that is incorrect. both times in the last century that the government slashed spending as a response to economic turmoil it was rewarded with booms. in contrast, over the last 40 years, in every single OECD nation, the "stimulus" packages that have been dependent on increasing transfer payments have been the ones that have failed (the success stories generally included cutting business taxes).

We are a consumer economy, we don't produce enough, if someone doesn't spend the economy will never recover, it will just keep getting worst.

demand is a function of supply. you won't fix the one till you've worked on t'other.
 
The horrible thing is: getting out of a recession requires everyone, pretty much, to fall further into debt - country and mankind alike. This is what we've built for ourselves.

If you have to interest rate your ass out day and night are you really climbing out of a recession or postponing the inevitable?

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
 
cpwill you are wrong. The government needs to spend money, no one else is doing it. You want to cut spending not because of economic factors but because it furthers your social agenda of less government, the economy be damned. We are a consumer economy, we don't produce enough, if someone doesn't spend the economy will never recover, it will just keep getting worst.

Less government intrusion will be good for the economy. There's no cash flow, because of all the government intervention in the private sector. Obamacare killed cash flow, because corporations still don't have a clue how much it's going to cost.

The promise of more regulations that cost more money and higher taxes isn't going to encourage private companies to spend money.
 
:shrug: both men made the same error, and trusted Congressional Democrats to actually make good on their promises to cut spending in proportion to the tax increases. Both got hoodwinked because no, when they pretty promise that this time they really mean to stop spending, they aren't trustworthy.

Is the "mistake" you're referring to the fact that the economy expanded after the tax increases?

That would make sense because, based on the results, republicans prefer to destroy the economy for political gain

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this is incorrect. SS Started running a deficit in 2010, and the CBO says it will continue to do so every year from here on out.

SS has contributed billions towards reducing our deficits and debt. And the CBO has not projected that. You're spinning



you'll get no arguments from me that Republicans screwed the pooch. but that doesn't excuse Democrats cutting said pooch's head off.

Actually, it's not just republicans. It's the entire rightwing. They were all silent about the runaway spending when republicans are in the white house. The dems at least worked towards reducing the deficits.
 
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