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Thread: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    I don't blame Obama for the debt he took on. We were loosing revenue at an extraordinary rate. Drastic have made things spending cuts would have made things worse. I can show you a similar chart form 1936 of what happens when the government makes massive spending cuts in a recession.

    Yes you do give a more practical view above. The tax cuts did not come with spending cuts, just because it didnt happen right away does not mean the tax cuts didnt not cause a deficit increase. We were already running a deficit, tax cuts are irresponsible without the same spending cuts. Yes the decreased revenues were from the recessions.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The amount spent is only one side of the ledger, the amount of revenues is the other.
    Yes of course. That post was specifically addressing a claim made that Bush and his R congress "spent like mad" -- False.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Republicans may tend to spend less,
    No, Bush and to a lesser extent Nixon had that tendency, Reagan and Bush Sr. spent vast amounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    they also take in less and as a result increase the debt more then democrats have.
    I doubt there's much of a difference except GWB probably had somewhat less with the two recessions (as I explained above) and Obama having significantly less given that tax receipts have been at historic lows.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    its on the bottom of each bar. On the x-axis.
    I still don't see it. I see five bars. There should be six
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #134
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    What's important is the debt to gdp ratio:



    The debt increased throughout Clinton's presidency, but the overall significance of that debt declined because of strong GDP growth. The more money you make, the more debt you can maintain.

    Bush largely maintained debt/gdp throughout his presidency, though his presidency was bookended with recessions, so you see it climb at the beginning and at the end.

    The increases under Bush were due to decreased revenues during two recessionary periods, not from "out of control spending."

    With Obama, we have high spending and stagnant growth, so yes - the alarm bells are going off.
    True, but notice where it starts trending decidedly upwards. What happened in 1980? Does anyone remember?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    Yes you do give a more practical view above. The tax cuts did not come with spending cuts, just because it didnt happen right away does not mean the tax cuts didnt not cause a deficit increase. We were already running a deficit, tax cuts are irresponsible without the same spending cuts. Yes the decreased revenues were from the recessions.
    I suppose we also can't assume that tax cuts didn't cause a huge surge in revenue that thwarted a massive depression. Of course there's no proof that either occurred, but fun to fantasize.

  6. #136
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes of course. That post was specifically addressing a claim made that Bush and his R congress "spent like mad" -- False.


    No, Bush and to a lesser extent Nixon had that tendency, Reagan and Bush Sr. spent vast amounts.


    I doubt there's much of a difference except GWB probably had somewhat less with the two recessions (as I explained above) and Obama having significantly less given that tax receipts have been at historic lows.
    It's not adding up. During bush*, the deficits soared, but you say it's not because of increased spending or tax cuts. Here's another way to look at it

    CBO Data Show Tax Cuts Have Played Much Larger Role than Domestic Spending Increases in Fueling the Deficit — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes of course. That post was specifically addressing a claim made that Bush and his R congress "spent like mad" -- False.
    Point conceded. I should have said "deficit spending like mad", that is, spending like mad compared to the tax revenues coming in
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I suppose we also can't assume that tax cuts didn't cause a huge surge in revenue that thwarted a massive depression. Of course there's no proof that either occurred, but fun to fantasize.
    But bush* tax cuts didn't result in a huge surge of revenue

    Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #139
    Student Flyersfan314's Avatar
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I suppose we also can't assume that tax cuts didn't cause a huge surge in revenue that thwarted a massive depression. Of course there's no proof that either occurred, but fun to fantasize.
    The tax cuts clearly reduced revenue and should have been repealed. They happened a very short time before the recession and did not create many jobs.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    I also found this

    Distribution of Effective Individual Income Tax Rate, 2010, Baseline: Current Law with AMT Patch

    This is after stimulus and is more detailed. I find it interesting.
    I'm consider myself pretty good at reading spreadsheets, but just for kicks how 'bout explaining to folks what the numbers really mean?

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