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Thread: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

  1. #121
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Also,

    For all the crap Bush takes about spending by Dems, Independents, Repubs, the media...
    in reality he spent less than most or all of his cohorts since '71 (yes, "W").

    Looking back 40 years, there have been 20 sessions of congress. All four associated with Bush are in the top 8, along with 2 of Nixon's and 2 of Clinton's. The big spenders were of course Reagan and Bush Sr., who occupy the bottom 8 along with 1 each from Clinton and Obama.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Also,

    For all the crap Bush takes about spending by Dems, Independents, Repubs, the media...
    in reality he spent less than most or all of his cohorts since '71 (yes, "W").

    Looking back 40 years, there have been 20 sessions of congress. All four associated with Bush are in the top 8, along with 2 of Nixon's and 2 of Clinton's. The big spenders were of course Reagan and Bush Sr., who occupy the bottom 8 along with 1 each from Clinton and Obama.
    He increased the debt more than any other president. I think it was around 5-6 trillion

    As someone else pointed out, spending is just half the problem
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Look we need to cut spending. But until we do no tax brakes. Thats what I dislike about the tax cuts, in addition they didnt create many jobs. Doesn't make any sense. Also any tax hikes should accompany cuts to the mandatory budget.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That chart is nonsense. It doesn't indicate what years, and it doesn't indicate any split congresses where one party holds one half of congress, and the other party the other. It's a mess

    And the Y axis isn't even labelled. Yeesh, what a mess
    I'm glad you at least figured out that R stands for Republican, D for Democrat, Prez for President and Cong for Congress. As to what you did find confusing:
    • "It doesn't indicate what years" - It goes back 40 years, see chart title
    • "the Y axis isn't even labelled" - Read the chart title
    • "it doesn't indicate any split congresses where one party holds one half of congress" - See the big purple bar that's labeled "SpltCong," that's the 2nd bar if you're color blind.


    If you need more help, let me know.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm glad you at least figured out that R stands for Republican, D for Democrat, Prez for President and Cong for Congress. As to what you did find confusing:
    • "It doesn't indicate what years" - It goes back 40 years, see chart title
    • "the Y axis isn't even labelled" - Read the chart title
    • "it doesn't indicate any split congresses where one party holds one half of congress" - See the big purple bar that's labeled "SpltCong," that's the 2nd bar if you're color blind.


    If you need more help, let me know.
    It doesn't label each category by years which makes it difficult to tell if it's accurate

    OK, but it's wasn't clear

    Where is D pres, split congress?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    its on the bottom of each bar. On the x-axis.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Not this myth again.

    Attachment 67114847

    Looking back the past 40 years:
    • Spending was at its lowest when Republicans had complete control.
    • Spending was at its highest when Democrats had complete control.
    • Spending was also quite high in the Reagan/Tip O'Neill years
    • Spending was moderate by comparison when Congress was controlled by the opposing party


    If you instead want to go the "House control the purse-strings" route, you'll also find a large difference between the parties:
    Democratic House: 21.0%
    Republican House: 19.2%

    The amount spent is only one side of the ledger, the amount of revenues is the other. Republicans may tend to spend less, they also take in less and as a result increase the debt more then democrats have. Republicans like to defer taxes to future generations while democrats would pay for their spending now
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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    He increased the debt more than any other president. I think it was around 5-6 trillion

    As someone else pointed out, spending is just half the problem
    What's important is the debt to gdp ratio:



    The debt increased throughout Clinton's presidency, but the overall significance of that debt declined because of strong GDP growth. The more money you make, the more debt you can maintain.

    Bush largely maintained debt/gdp throughout his presidency, though his presidency was bookended with recessions, so you see it climb at the beginning and at the end.

    The increases under Bush were due to decreased revenues during two recessionary periods, not from "out of control spending."

    With Obama, we have high spending and stagnant growth, so yes - the alarm bells are going off.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyersfan314 View Post
    Its not just spending its tax cuts without cutting spending. That chart is not a practical view of our economic situation. Spending is one half of the budget. Sometimes spending is a good thing.
    I posted a "practical view of our economic situation" above
    Any significant increases in debt under Bush had nothing to do with tax cuts. The first gain ocurred before the cuts were implemented, and the second gain occurred when the last recession hit.

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    Re: Debt Crisis is Worse than we Think

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It doesn't label each category by years which makes it difficult to tell if it's accurate

    OK, but it's wasn't clear

    Where is D pres, split congress?
    Democratic presidents hadn't had a split congress for at least 60 years, and probably a lot longer than that, until this year.

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