hey! that's what we should have done! a giant demand-side stimulus package! gosh, why didn't we think of that in 2008 and then again even bigger in 2009?
exactly. the problem is the debt, not the debt ceiling.
Looks to me like someone else buying the media rhetoric, that is bull****. This is all about spending too much and increasing the credit card limit so they can borrow more money to pay for that overspending. Our Credit rating is going to be downgraded because of spending too much, not because of increasing the credit limit.
As far as we know, the stimulus did nothing, it hurt us, or it saved us from a terrible depression
The problem with trying to determine the effect is that we don't know how bad things would have gotten without it. I didn't particularly support it, mainly because I didn't see how it would improve lender confidence during a period of great foreclosure and market readjustment.
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Funny. I take the same line of 99% of economists and I'm "buying into media rhetoric".
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Confidence is the issue right now. Paying off the debt is part of improving that, but it is only one small part of the bigger problem.
Please don't, I can't take any more of your simplistic explanations.:roll:
I'll make this incredibly simple for you.
Wow! Now, that's just astonishing! Sounds like their economy is cracking like a whip. I can picture them all dancing in the streets, with ipods in hand and a fresh pair of nike's underfoot.And as for your dumbass statement. Ethopia's GDP grew 10.9% between 2010 and 2011. Zimbabwe's GDP grew 9.3%. A large part of that was due to microlending.
You don't have to. Since you appear to be operating in your own little world of fantasy, you're free to imagine whatever you please. Maybe you'd like to relax for a bit and take a leisurely ride on a rainbow pony?Why do I have to constantly pwn you conservatives?
:lol: hell, why don't we give it credit for halting an alien invasion as well? "Billions would have died but Noble Super Obama Saved Us All!!!"
it won't. in fact, of those willing to lend and invest, it took much of the money with which they were going to do so.
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Confidence is the issue right now. Paying off the debt is part of improving that, but it is only one small part of the bigger problem.
:roll:
Funny. I take the same line of 99% of economists and I'm "buying into media rhetoric".
And, while I find it rather amusing that you seem to be blaming the current debt talks for major declines in GDP occurring as far back as January... it's not really a tangent I'd like to explore.
Wow! Now, that's just astonishing! Sounds like their economy is cracking like a whip. I can picture them all dancing in the streets, with ipods in hand and a fresh pair of nike's underfoot.
Now, how exactly do we calculate 10.9% of "diddly"?
You could say the same thing about butterfly wings flapping in Australia, but that is the point. You can't predict what would have happened without it. Of course, it seems you gravitated towards one outcome more than the others, which shows you are responding emotionally and reading only what you want to read, not what I am actually posting.
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We borrowed money for the stimulus, we didn't take it from tax revenues.
99% of economists? Sounds like an exaggeration to me. prove it?
Disprove it.
Maybe then you folks would actually do some research on the issue outside of partisan bloggers and journalists.
As you stated the stimulus was a total and complete failure and here we are two years AFTER the recession ended and Obama has generated the following results:
Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
Now we can add. .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth to that list of liberal successes
Well that came out of left field - why all the guilt?Yes, it is bad. So what's your point? What would conservatives have done that wouldn't have actually made things much worse -- let alone better?
I stated there was no way to know the effect. Is this the best you can do now? You can distort my words? That is sad.
What is sad here is that Congress makes the laws, the president only has the power to veto them, and yet you entirely wish to lay it on his lap to blame him. What is sadder is you want to make this into a partisan issue when both sides have contributed immensely to this problem going back 30 years. Please keep it up. You are contributing to killing our economy by playing political rhetoric rather than actually focusing on the actual problem.
It is the economy! Namely consumer and lender confidence!
Get that through your thick skull! It is not Obama. It is not Republican or Democrat! It is a political climate that you are contributing to that is hurting us! You are the problem!
Devastating? That seems to be putting it lightly. It's not very often that a debate goes months back in time and kicks the first quarter GDP squarely in the ass.The have taken the US economy hostage by using threat of default in an attempt to instill fiscally irresponsible measures that have no hope of passing the Senate or White House. The uncertainty they have created by doing so has been devastating to consumer and lender confidence.
As you stated the stimulus was a total and complete failure and here we are two years AFTER the recession ended and Obama has generated the following results:
Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
Now we can add. .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth to that list of liberal successes
Yeah, well according to projections issued in Jan. 2008, we're due for surpluses as far as the eye can see, and were expected to average just 4.9% unemployment for 2010-2013.
Yes, Congress makes the laws
and prior to January 2011 the Democrats took total control of that Congress in January 2007.
Obama had a blank check and generated those numbers.
The actual problem is we have a Community Organizer as President and not a leader.
Confidence comes from good leadership and we have none right now
Look at 2009 which is Bush's budget, a $1.2 trillion deficit.When are you going to realize that chart does nothing for your argument? Notice the actual Obama debt 2009-2010 vs. projections? Shows the accuracy of projections, doesn't it?
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The markets work on confidence. The pony show of not raising he debt ceiling has done nothing to improve confidence. To the contrary, it has directly resulted in hurting confidence and thereby hurting the markets. The longer the game goes on, the worse the impact will be.
Oh, really? Rather than spending all this money on foreign aid, maybe we should just send Tony Robbins out to Ethiopia or Zimbabwe and really get things pumping.
"[Sic]There's turbulence in our capital markets, and it's been going on since August (2007). We're all over, we're looking for ways to work our way through it. I've got great confidence in our markets, thay're resilient, they're flexible, but this has taken some time and we're focused on it." - Henry Paulson during interview with Matt Lauer, NBC's Today Show
"There's a broad lack of confidence out there. We're hearing it from our clients, our customers; we're seeing it in our prime brokerage." - Jamie Dimon, CEO, JP Morgan Chase