U.S. GDP Grows Just 1.3%

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
Noticed that you ignored the fiscal year informaton regarding the Govt. Guess when proven wrong it is a lot easier to ignore the information hoping that if you say the same thing over and over enough that it eventually becomes true.

Oh, wait - you get to use calendar year number when bashing Obama on jobs, but we have to use fiscal year numbers when discussing Congress? Please just let us know - oh, glorified one - which set of numbers we're supposed to use in which thread and we will obey your rules since obviously you are the end all and be all of debaters and could - if only we would recognize it - rescue the entire world's economy with your glorious knowledge.

I'll meet you back in the thread about Bush's job creation and Obama's job creation so we can compare fiscal year numbers.

Or are we supposed to only use calendar year's when discussing that topic? Which is more convenient for you to defend your party's policies?

AdamT · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
No, actually it's because several conservatives have said the recession was the fault of the Democrats being in Congress for a year-and-a-half when it occurred. So if it's the Democrats being in Congress at fault for the recession, the Republicans have to suck this one up and eat it.

However, the Republicans did say they would get us jobs if they were elected and so far they have not done so.

But they are trying to pass a bill that will still have our national credit rating downgraded, which will cause all Americans to pay higher interest rates, increase the debt we currently have and THEN force everyone back into the same death spiral again in six months.

That's responsible.

But they have at least wasted critical time voting on a bill that was dead in the water the moment it was conceived!

The Prof · Jul 29, 2011

CriticalThought said:
Maybe then you folks would actually do some research on the issue outside of partisan bloggers and journalists.

tell it to krugman, tell it to time

Taylor · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
GDP growth Since the recession came to an end:

2009 Q4 - 3.8%
2010 Q1 - 3.9%
2010 Q2 - 3.7%
2010 Q3 - 2.5%
2010 Q4 - 2.3%

GDP growth Since Republicans took the House:

2011 Q1 - .4%
2011 Q2 - 1.3%

Oh! I love these games!

Sooo... FFG, as bad as things seem right now, you need only consider the alternative to realize that things could be worse.

Much worse.

Like, historical proportions worse. Right?

GDP growth When Democrats took the House.

2007 Q1 - 0.9%
2007 Q2 - 3.2%
2007 Q3 - 2.3%
2007 Q4 - 2.9%
2008 Q1 - -0.7%
2008 Q2 - 0.6%
2008 Q3 - -4.0%
2008 Q4 - -6.8%
2009 Q1 - -4.9%
2009 Q2 - -0.7%

:2wave: Heya FilmFestGuy!

Sheik Yerbuti · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
No, actually it's because several conservatives have said the recession was the fault of the Democrats being in Congress for a year-and-a-half when it occurred.

Not even that long. Democrats took over in January, 2007 and Bush's Great Recession began 11 months later in December, 2007.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy;1059696256]What? You know jack **** about me. You can pretend you do, but that's just the stereotype that's been painted for you by too many years of listening to talk radio and watching your prescribed media. Should I just assume you live in your gated community with six cars, munching on caviar and carrying on an affair with a much younger woman who you keep on your yacht in South Beach?

I know that you continue to buy the rhetoric of Obama and ignore the fiscal year of the U.S. Govt. As for me assume what you want but you know what that means, don't you.

I'm pissed off at Republicans at this particular moment because of the histrionics in the House. The whole thing is ridiculous. I had a back and forth with someone who is a conservative on here yesterday and in minutes we could basically find an agreement. But when you elect the great Orange one to be your speaker, all he can come up with is a bill that won't prevent the credit rating from being taken down, causing interest on the national debt and on average citizens who have car loans and credit cards to rise - all just to have the same arguments in six months.

You have no idea what is going on in the House just like you don't understand when the fiscal year of the U.S. begins and ends. Apparently you also don't understand what raising the debt ceiling actually does nor do you understand that the Obama so called cuts are off record budgets thus no cuts at all. It isn't not raising the debt ceiling that will take our rating down, it is the massive spending and growth of that spending which is now equal to our yearly GDP that will lower are ratings. Read what the ratings agencies actuallly said.

It's a horribly irresponsible bill that cannot pass in the Senate or be signed, but they move forward with it anyway and the only reason he would do so is to attempt to gain political points while things come crashing down around us. Not saying that Obama isn't trying to game the system, because that's what all politicians do; but Boehner actually holds the key here and if he would create a bill (like Reid's) that is at least tolerable to the other side, we'd be done with this.

It is horribly irresponsible leadership by the President to not offer a plan on paper and to demonize the House plan before it is even passed. What is tolerable to Reid is passing the Reid budget which cuts from a record baseline budget and thus isn't any cuts at all. Compromise with a liberal means doing what that liberal wants.

But he won't do it out of adherence to a class of freshmen who couldn't govern their way out of a hedge maze.

It really isn't that difficult, cut the damn spending. We have a spending problem not a revenue problem and the place we really should start is the 3.1 trillion 2008 budget, not the 3.7 trillion 2010 budget to start cutting.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Not even that long. Democrats took over in January, 2007 and Bush's Great Recession began 11 months later in December, 2007.

Right, the first budget of the new fiscal year began under the Democrat Congress in October 2007. Tell me what that Congress did to prevent Bush from "leading us over a cliff" like you and others want to claim? How could such smart, liberal elite Democrat Congressional Representatives in total control of the legislative process and purse strings allow a dumb Texas cowboy to "destroy" the economy is beyond me, unless..........? Hmmmm, what did the Democrats really want?

The Prof · Jul 29, 2011

donsutherland1 said:
Voters will be looking ahead during the 2012 election. Political narratives about the past will matter little. An increasing problem is that the two parties increasingly view the situation as a zero-sum game (one can only gain at the other's expense). That perspective has greatly corroded the willingness to cooperate, even where vital national interests are at stake. That persepctive is part of the reason the nation's political risk is elevated beyond where it has been for quite some time. It is a compelling reason why confidence in the nation's policy makers and even political system is eroding, both among Americans and overseas U.S. partners.

thank you

the republican caucus of the us house is short and clear---no long term advances of credit without credible fiscal consolidation

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

Taylor said:
Oh! I love these games!

Sooo... FFG, as bad as things seem right now, you need only consider the alternative to realize that things could be worse.

Much worse.

Like, historical proportions worse. Right?

GDP growth When Democrats took the House.

2007 Q1 - 0.9%
2007 Q2 - 3.2%
2007 Q3 - 2.3%
2007 Q4 - 2.9%
2008 Q1 - -0.7%
2008 Q2 - 0.6%
2008 Q3 - -4.0%
2008 Q4 - -6.8%
2009 Q1 - -4.9%
2009 Q2 - -0.7%

:2wave: Heya FilmFestGuy!

Not only did they take the House in January 2007 but they also took the Senate. Guess liberals think red is a good number.

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Taylor said:
Oh! I love these games!

Sooo... FFG, as bad as things seem right now, you need only consider the alternative to realize that things could be worse.

Much worse.

Like, historical proportions worse. Right?

GDP growth When Democrats took the House.

2007 Q1 - 0.9%
2007 Q2 - 3.2%
2007 Q3 - 2.3%
2007 Q4 - 2.9%
2008 Q1 - -0.7%
2008 Q2 - 0.6%
2008 Q3 - -4.0%
2008 Q4 - -6.8%
2009 Q1 - -4.9%
2009 Q2 - -0.7%

:2wave: Heya FilmFestGuy!

Actually, it's kinda funny you posted that. That means when Democrats were in Congress AND the White House, GDP growth went from -4.9% to +2.3% - for a turnaround of 7.2%.

Let's see how things went when Republicans controlled the Congress and the White House, GDP growth went from 2.6% to .9%... Aww...

But, you'll really have to ask Conservative whether we're supposed to use fiscal year numbers or calendar year numbers or quarterlies or monthlies, because he is the one who gets to decide what numbers are used.

Oh, and :2wave: back at ya.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
Actually, it's kinda funny you posted that. That means when Democrats were in Congress AND the White House, GDP growth went from -4.9% to +2.3% - for a turnaround of 7.2%.

Let's see how things went when Republicans controlled the Congress and the White House, GDP growth went from 2.6% to .9%... Aww...

But, you'll really have to ask Conservative whether we're supposed to use fiscal year numbers or calendar year numbers or quarterlies or monthlies, because he is the one who gets to decide what numbers are used.

Oh, and :2wave: back at ya.

Slightly liberal? You are a full liberal so take full credit. The Obama record speaks for itself

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

Sheik Yerbuti · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
Right, the first budget of the new fiscal year began under the Democrat Congress in October 2007.

We've been through this before. I pointed out the recession began only 2 months after their budget began and asked you what policy they put in place which caused Bush's Great Recession.

To recap...

You couldn't cite anything from their budget which caused the recession.

You couldn't cite a single bill they passed which caused the recession.

You tried to cite them not passing a measure which would have increased oversight over the GSE's, which is valid -- only that was the same policy maintained by Republicans for the 7 years prior top Democrats taking over the Congress in 2007.

Then you tried to blame Chris Dodd and Barney Frank during years they were in the minority party while Republicans were [supposedly] in charge.

Oh, wait, here's my favorite part ...

"You always blame someone else for your own failures never taking personal responsibility." ~ Conservative

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
Slightly liberal? You are a full liberal so take full credit. The Obama record speaks for itself

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

Are we supposed to go off the fiscal year or the calendar year with regards to the misery index numbers? Where do we get these? And I probably should change my label because ever since the advent of the ridiculousness that is the Tea Party, I would like to be considered as far away from them as possible, since they're about to destroy our economy with their foolishness.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
Are we supposed to go off the fiscal year or the calendar year with regards to the misery index numbers? Where do we get these? And I probably should change my label because ever since the advent of the ridiculousness that is the Tea Party, I would like to be considered as far away from them as possible, since they're about to destroy our economy with their foolishness.

Misery index is calendar year, GDP and budget numbers are off fiscal year. Your hatred for the foundation upon which this country was built is noted.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

Sheik Yerbuti said:
We've been through this before. I pointed out the recession began only 2 months after their budget began and asked you what policy they put in place which caused Bush's Great Recession.

To recap...

You couldn't cite anything from their budget which caused the recession.

You couldn't cite a single bill they passed which caused the recession.

You tried to cite them not passing a measure which would have increased oversight over the GSE's, which is valid -- only that was the same policy maintained by Republicans for the 7 years prior top Democrats taking over the Congress in 2007.

Then you tried to blame Chris Dodd and Barney Frank during years they were in the minority party while Republicans were [supposedly] in charge.

Oh, wait, here's my favorite part ...

"You always blame someone else for your own failures never taking personal responsibility." ~ Conservative

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

Obama approval rating today 40%

Taylor · Jul 29, 2011

CriticalThought said:
As far as we know, the stimulus did nothing, it hurt us, or it saved us from a terrible depression.

Let's hope it did nothing...

Because if it's been propping us up all this time (as some would contend, with CBO estimates no less), we may soon be in for a whole lot of hurt as funding dries up...

And that trusty stool...
That's kept us safe...
For so long...
From some obviously terrible but not terribly obvious consequence...

is quietly kicked from under our feet.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

Sheik Yerbuti said:
We've been through this before. I pointed out the recession began only 2 months after their budget began and asked you what policy they put in place which caused Bush's Great Recession.

To recap...

You couldn't cite anything from their budget which caused the recession.

You couldn't cite a single bill they passed which caused the recession.

You tried to cite them not passing a measure which would have increased oversight over the GSE's, which is valid -- only that was the same policy maintained by Republicans for the 7 years prior top Democrats taking over the Congress in 2007.

Then you tried to blame Chris Dodd and Barney Frank during years they were in the minority party while Republicans were [supposedly] in charge.

Oh, wait, here's my favorite part ...

"You always blame someone else for your own failures never taking personal responsibility." ~ Conservative

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

Obama approval rating today 40%, The American people are waking up

Objective Voice · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
First they submitted a budget that the Democrats never did, that is a start

Let's get it straight, House Democrats CANNOT bring a budget to the floor WITHOUT the House leader's approval. So, even if the Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi, did have a debt limit plan of her own that House Democrats supported, it would NEVER make it to the House floor. Only Speaker Boehner and his crew can do that per House rules.

Furthermore, per Art 1, Sect 7 to the Constitution, bills (especially those dealing with revenue) must first come from the House. (Also see House rules, section 7) Then the Senate can either approve it or reject it. In fact, the Senate can't bring a law up for a vote until after the House has taken up the vote first. Why do you think Sen. Reid's bill has yet to be brought to the floor of the Senate? All this talk from Sen. McConnell talking about the Democrats haven't submitted a plan is BS and he knows it. Unfortunately, most Americans especially those who are partisan don't understand the process of how our government works where Congress is concerned.

Process...learn it, understand it, govern by it!

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Sheik Yerbuti said:
We've been through this before. I pointed out the recession began only 2 months after their budget began and asked you what policy they put in place which caused Bush's Great Recession.

To recap...

You couldn't cite anything from their budget which caused the recession.

You couldn't cite a single bill they passed which caused the recession.

You tried to cite them not passing a measure which would have increased oversight over the GSE's, which is valid -- only that was the same policy maintained by Republicans for the 7 years prior top Democrats taking over the Congress in 2007.

Then you tried to blame Chris Dodd and Barney Frank during years they were in the minority party while Republicans were [supposedly] in charge.

Oh, wait, here's my favorite part ...

"You always blame someone else for your own failures never taking personal responsibility." ~ Conservative

Conservatives have always blamed others for their problems. It's the welfare mama's fault that they aren't rich. It's the black man's fault they don't have a job. It's the gay's fault that their marriage is miserable.

You name it, and they'll blame someone for it.

That's why Palin (who hasn't yet found a spotlight she wouldn't hog) complains about the media all the time. It's the media's fault when they quote her verbatim. It was Katie Couric's fault that she couldn't think of the title of one single magazine.

That's why Newt Gingrich blamed his patriotism for him cheating on two wives.

That's why it's the minority Democrat's fault we went to war in Iraq based on WMDs that weren't there.

Blame, blame, blame, blame.

Oh, and victim, victim, victim. Don't forget victimhood. Those billionaire Koch Brothers are under assault don't you know. That oppressive government has only let them make $35 Billion, what with it's security and infrastructure and all. If only they'd been born in a nation without those things, like Somalia or Kyrgyzstan, they'd have at least another $20 billion! But they had the misfortune of being born to uber-wealthy parents in America of all places. Now, they have to spend millions and millions of dollars lobbying their Republican friends to help them avoid paying taxes, or they would be broke! Why, if they had to pay FICA taxes on all their income, they couldn't live! If their top rate were returned to 39.6%, they'd have to pack up and move to Namibia, where they can be free of government and it's evil ways. Poor fellas. They just can't catch a break, can they?

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

Objective Voice said:
Let's get it straight, House Democrats CANNOT bring a budget to the floor WITHOUT the House leader's approval. So, even if the Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi, did have a debt limit plan of her own that House Democrats supported, it would NEVER make it to the House floor. Only Speaker Boehner and his crew can do that per House rules.

Furthermore, per Art 1, Sect 7 to the Constitution, bills (especially those dealing with revenue) must first come from the House. Then the Senate can either approve it or reject it. In fact, the Senate can't bring a law up for a vote until after the House has taken up the vote first. Why do you think Sen. Reid's bill has yet to be brought to the floor of the Senate? All this talk from Sen. McConnell talking about the Democrats haven't submitted a plan is BS and he knows it. Unfortunately, most Americans especially those who are partisan don't understand the process of how our government works where Congress is concerned.

Process...learn it, understand it, govern by it!

I am talking about the 2011 budget that was due last year before October, the Democrats ignored it and operated on CR's. The GOP took control and submitted a budget with spending cuts, it was rejected by the Senate and Obama who wants this crisis as a lifeline to re-election. Looks like it isn't working with the current approval ratings.

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

PzKfW IVe · Jul 29, 2011

Objective Voice said:
Let's get it straight, House Democrats CANNOT bring a budget to the floor WITHOUT the House leader's approval.

Methinks he refers to the first two years of The Obama's Administration

So, even if the Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi, did have a debt limit plan of her own that House Democrats supported, it would NEVER make it to the House floor. Only Speaker Boehner and his crew can do that per House rules.

Correct. The GOP has the ball - if you want to play, you have to go to them.

See, there's a good number of GOP Congressmen who are perfectly OK with not raising the debt ceiling, enough so that any hike cannot be passed w/o their support.
OTOH, the Dems/liberals cannot imagine life w/o the government being able to borrow - as if THAT doesn't say someething - and so, if they want to get that hike, they have to present a deal that those who are happy to not raise the limit will accept.

Apparently, this has yet to happen.
:shrug:

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
Conservatives have always blamed others for their problems. It's the welfare mama's fault that they aren't rich. It's the black man's fault they don't have a job. It's the gay's fault that their marriage is miserable.

You name it, and they'll blame someone for it.

That's why Palin (who hasn't yet found a spotlight she wouldn't hog) complains about the media all the time. It's the media's fault when they quote her verbatim. It was Katie Couric's fault that she couldn't think of the title of one single magazine.

That's why Newt Gingrich blamed his patriotism for him cheating on two wives.

That's why it's the minority Democrat's fault we went to war in Iraq based on WMDs that weren't there.

Blame, blame, blame, blame.

Oh, and victim, victim, victim. Don't forget victimhood. Those billionaire Koch Brothers are under assault don't you know. That oppressive government has only let them make $35 Billion, what with it's security and infrastructure and all. If only they'd been born in a nation without those things, like Somalia or Kyrgyzstan, they'd have at least another $20 billion! But they had the misfortune of being born to uber-wealthy parents in America of all places. Now, they have to spend millions and millions of dollars lobbying their Republican friends to help them avoid paying taxes, or they would be broke! Why, if they had to pay FICA taxes on all their income, they couldn't live! If their top rate were returned to 39.6%, they'd have to pack up and move to Namibia, where they can be free of government and it's evil ways. Poor fellas. They just can't catch a break, can they?

Who do you blame for the following:

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
Misery index is calendar year, GDP and budget numbers are off fiscal year. Your hatred for the foundation upon which this country was built is noted.

I just need to know how to better find ways to show my hatred for the freely elected leader, that's all.

Without your advice, I just couldn't possibly find my way through this labyrinth.

And Congress, we're supposed to blame fiscally, but president's on calendar year, right? Even going back to January 1, 18 days before they take office? Is that the most effective way to judge them?

FilmFestGuy · Jul 29, 2011

Conservative said:
Who do you blame for the following:

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

No one. It's his own damn fault for not taking this debt ceiling issue by the balls and ever trusting the Great Pumpkin in negotiations.

Conservative · Jul 29, 2011

FilmFestGuy said:
I just need to know how to better find ways to show my hatred for the freely elected leader, that's all.

Without your advice, I just couldn't possibly find my way through this labyrinth.

And Congress, we're supposed to blame fiscally, but president's on calendar year, right? Even going back to January 1, 18 days before they take office? Is that the most effective way to judge them?

I like Obama, great guy, great smile, good looking kids but a very poor leader and totally incompetent. His economic policy was a disaster and the results show it. Now if you stopped thinking with your heart you would understand that.